Dosing through the night

[Vincent100]

Hi all
Need to be put right here for my peace of mind
Redsea 350
Alk 7.8 dkh steady
Cal 435 ppm
Mag haven't tested for a couple weeks as was sky high last time after lfs started using new salt mix , letting it drop but can test and post results if needed
No3 haven't tested for abit but it's always low
Po4 0.3 ....Ish
Running reactor with n/p pellets and a ball of cheato in the sump , skimmer
I also dose trace elements and iodine
I dose my alk ( readsea buffer ) at 1ml every hour ...20 times aday , I do it this way so there's no real movement in the level of my alk , so I do dose through the night and all's been fine
In the last week or 2 I noticed my Cal demand had gone up as iv tons of coralline growing on my back glass , sump , pumps
So I worked out how much more I was using and add a few extra doseing times to my Cal pump .........But here's what I need to know lol.
The 2 new 2ml doses were set to go off when the lights were out ...Think one was at 1am 2ml....and the other at 5am 2ml ( red sea).
Since I've done this iv noticed alk burns on a few of my sps , should I just dose the Cal through the day like I use to when I had no problems or do you think there's something else going on here
Thanks for reading my long post and sorry for it being so long winded

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

The calcium change with each dose is miniscule. Probably 1 ppm or less, and isn't going to harm anything.

I'm not sure what the issue is, but I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with calcium dosing.

 

[Rob Lion]

Hi Vincent, greetings from East Sussex to Kent

you may find the issue is with the time of day/night you are dosing verses the time of day/night your corals actually uptake the Alk / Ca.

I spent a lot of time testing my system, to see how my tank uptakes alk over a 24 hour period, by basically doing a test every hour!!

Results were this..... Alk uptake started slowly an hour after lights came on (8am), my lights ramp up from 5% to 100% over 6 hours and then back down again over the next 6 hours back to 5% (8pm).

Max alk uptake occurs 3 hours AFTER the lights hit their max power (max light at 2pm, but max alk uptake was a 5pm, and alk was still being consumed up to 3 hours after min lights.

I think here is what is happening, corals don't just grab and use elements from the water, they have to convert them internally, and that takes a little time to do and store up what it really needs, there are really 2 parts of a coral, its skeleton and its flesh and whilst the 2 happen at the different times (skeleton first, that's why you see white tips etc) its waiting for the light to grow the flesh to protect the skeleton. It will do this until it exhausts its stored up supplies.

If you want to maximise growth/colour, you need to have the ingredients it needs, Alk, Ca, Mg, etc for the skeleton and NO3, PO4, organics etc for the flesh available in good time, so it can do its internal converting of it to what it actually needs. All this is governed as in nature by when the light is available.

By dosing Alk at night, to maybe lessen the pH swing of your tank, it's not helping the coral much, as it really wants it when the lights are on an its growing, which is in the daytime.

If you ignore any dosings, you will have a natural pH swing from day to night, as corals / algae / bacteria etc consume CO2 from the water making it less acidic in the day. But by dosing Alk (over 20 hours) at night to help balance your pH, your Alk dkH is now having a much bigger swing, as you are adding alk at night but not consuming it until later during the day when it finally gets the Calcium to go with it.

You say your Alk is steady at 7.8 dkH, but i am assuming when you test it is at a similar time of day, so if your dosing is matching your consumption, then it will appear steady..... but over the course of the day it will be probably rising from 7.8 to maybe 8.8 before being consumed down again to 7.8. I think this may be the cause of your burnt tips (higher alk, low nutrients). Stability is key, if you can keep your Alk and Ca at a steady level all day and night have better growth and less problems. Don't forget, in the sea its getting 100% water changes every few minutes, so levels are normally steady 24/7.

Try changing your dosing to match your lighting schedule, dosing alk every 2 hours on even hours 8am /10am, /12pm etc, and dosing Ca at 2 hours every odd hour 9am / 11am / 1pm etc. (to avoid precipitation) and change the amount you dose from an evenly spread amount to an increasing amount from 0% to 50% at max lights, then decreasing to 0% at min lights (assuming 12 hr lighting period).

Or go as far as I do and match max dosings to time of max lights +3hrs. That may seem like a lot of work, but hey, that's what your dosing pumps are for Steady alk and Ca are the key, not steady pH IMHO.

Sorry for the long winded reply

Ps. side note. My system was always rock steady with Ca of 430 Alk 8.9 dkH and for 6 months I had a great but slow growing tank.. I did a ICP triton test and it showed my Ca was actually 415 ! once I adjusted my Ca to cater for my testing inaccuracy, my SPS and LPS really started to grow fast along with the coraline etc.

 

[GoVols]

@Vincent100
Awesome reef!
If you don't mind. Beside the Kessil, what brand is your main light and has it been over your "reefer" since day 1?

Thanks, GoVols

 

[Vincent100]

@Rob Lion

Hi Rob from sunny kent

Thanks for your time to explain that to me .
Iv took in all what you wrote and I looking into it now
So I'm gonna stop the doseing in the night and just dose with lights on
One thing I'm not sure of is ...Should I still dose the same amount that I have been but just add it all through the day
It works out at 20ml or should I just dose the amount that I was using in the day
Thinking that I should still dose the whole amount but would like to here from you just to make sure
Thanks for your help

Also got a few new bits today

 

[Vincent100]

@GoVols
Hi mate
It's a TMC v2ilumenair 1200
And yes iv had it from day one , it's an ok light but there's better out there

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ps. side note. My system was always rock steady with Ca of 430 Alk 8.9 dkH and for 6 months I had a great but slow growing tank.. I did a ICP triton test and it showed my Ca was actually 415 ! once I adjusted my Ca to cater for my testing inaccuracy, my SPS and LPS really started to grow fast along with the coraline etc.

Are those the values you really meant? You are attributing a difference to 430 vs 415 ppm calcium?

 

[GoVols]

@GoVols
Hi mate
It's a TMC v2ilumenair 1200
And yes iv had it from day one , it's an ok light but there's better out there

Thanks, Looks like it has some really nice reviews in Europe.

@SPR1968

Shaun,
Have you met @Rob Lion and @Vincent100 on R2R?

Freddie

 

[Vincent100]

Rob I changed my doseing times to how you said and I'll let you know how it goes , thanks again mate

 

[SPR1968]

Thanks, Looks like it has some really nice reviews in Europe.

@SPR1968

Shaun,
Have you met @Rob Lion and @Vincent100 on R2R?

Freddie

I have now lol!

 

[reefwiser]

Rob is right the cal and alk need to be there during the coarse of the day as the corals are going thru their metabolic processes. They are pulling in the cal and alk to build their skeleton during the coarse of the day. An you see this when you test your levels over the coarse of a day and not just once a day.

 

[Rob Lion]

Rob I changed my doseing times to how you said and I'll let you know how it goes , thanks again mate

Hey Vincent from a very sunny East Sussex today

Yep, work out what your corals actually consume in a whole day, this may mean testing your parameters then no dosing for 3 days, see how much alk and Ca are consumed, dose what ever is needed to bring your parameters back to where they should be, then start you automated dosing as 1/3rd of what in dropped in the 3 days the next day.

Always test at the same time of day, personally i test at midnight, when all parameters are stable (lights being out for 4 hours).

You have a great looking tank! you must be doing a lot of things right already!

Don't forget, those new corals will add to the alk and Ca demand Where did you get them from?????

 

[Rob Lion]

Are those the values you really meant? You are attributing a difference to 430 vs 415 ppm calcium?

Hi Randy, actually yes they are correct... I know you will probably say that 415 to 430 ppm Ca isn't much difference, and shouldn't make a difference, but it's a very clear difference in MY tank that once Ca drops below 420, growth in SPS is stunted.

 

[GoVols]

I have now lol!

Well,
You guys could have a cup of tea together over there, and no soccer (football) talk!

We can't afford to lose two out three R2R family members due to soccer (football) rivalry deaths.

 

[Vincent100]

Haha I'm a big football fan ....What's soccer lol

Big football fan but support a small team you most likely have never heard of ,.............. ....
MILLWALL

@SPR1968 ...Were in the UK you from mate ?

Govols , teas not for me lol ,.........BEER

 

[Vincent100]

Think my new bubble got hungry on the way home from the lfs

@Rob Lion will pm you the shop don't think I'm allowed to say there name on here
Great shop

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi Randy, actually yes they are correct... I know you will probably say that 415 to 430 ppm Ca isn't much difference, and shouldn't make a difference, but it's a very clear difference in MY tank that once Ca drops below 420, growth in SPS is stunted.

Right, I'd be shocked it it made any difference at all. Calcium is not normally seen to be limiting to calcification at either concentration. You sure that calcium drop you report was not accompanied by an alk or pH drop, both of which would be known to limit calcification?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

will pm you the shop don't think I'm allowed to say there name on here
Great shop

As long as you do not work there or receive benefits from posting you can post shop names.

 

[GoVols]

Think my new bubble got hungry on the way home from the lfs

Lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have a shoehorn to fit the new goodies in there?

 

[Vincent100]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Randy.

Nope don't work there or benefit anything
They benefit from me tho lol....My money

Coral cabin, sittingbourne Kent , they don't really update their web site but do alot of posting on Facebook
Hundreds of sps frags , massive lps tank
All really good quality stock

Govols it is becoming hard to find space to stick things ...Just can't help myself when I'm in a store