Dry rock cycling issues

sternicus

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My issue is this. I’ve been cycling 80 pounds of brs dry rock. Bleach bathed it, rinsed off the bleach in 3 sessions. Let it dry for 3 days in sun. Have had the dry rock curing for two weeks than started cycling them. Threw a table shrimp in and some dr Tim’s. My problem is that I have 8ppm ammonia and it will not go down. I even did a 50% water change to the tank. Rocks have been cycling since the 10th. I did see a spike in nitrites and now they are gone so it’s the second round of ammonia
 
My issue is this. I’ve been cycling 80 pounds of brs dry rock. Bleach bathed it, rinsed off the bleach in 3 sessions. Let it dry for 3 days in sun. Have had the dry rock curing for two weeks than started cycling them. Threw a table shrimp in and some dr Tim’s. My problem is that I have 8ppm ammonia and it will not go down. I even did a 50% water change to the tank. Rocks have been cycling since the 10th. I did see a spike in nitrites and now they are gone so it’s the second round of ammonia
What are your nitrates doing?
 
Nothing. Showing up 0
Hmm.. I would questions your test sets. If you had nitrites those should break down into nitrates. It would be very unusual to be able to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas fast enough to make them unreadable.
 
Hmm.. I would questions your test sets. If you had nitrites those should break down into nitrates. It would be very unusual to be able to convert nitrates into nitrogen gas fast enough to make them unreadable.

I agree with needed a better test kit. Thing is it’s showing my current tank is at 0ppm ammonia. So it seems accurate to me. Idk what to do. I’m very frustrated
 
I agree with needed a better test kit. Thing is it’s showing my current tank is at 0ppm ammonia. So it seems accurate to me. Idk what to do. I’m very frustrated
This is the only reason I don't like the table shrimp method. There is no way to know how much ammonia it is contributing to the system. We don't know if it is still breaking down and releasing ammonia. The lack of nitrates is also a wildcard. I can't imagine that it is actually correct but without knowing exactly what is going on there I'm not sure I can help much.

API test kits?
 
Just a couple things to try. When I worked at a LFS we had two tubs we used to clean everything. We'd throw everything in the bleachwater when it was dirty, and then after a while we'd soak it in a tub with some Prime. If you have residual bleach, it could be affecting the bacteria's ability to grow. Throwing in some Prime may help the problem.

The other thing to try is a cheap bottle of bacteria starter, the stuff you see at the LFS that says live bacteria inside. Although you can absolutely do it without it, it can help get the population started quickly.
 
Just a couple things to try. When I worked at a LFS we had two tubs we used to clean everything. We'd throw everything in the bleachwater when it was dirty, and then after a while we'd soak it in a tub with some Prime. If you have residual bleach, it could be affecting the bacteria's ability to grow. Throwing in some Prime may help the problem.

The other thing to try is a cheap bottle of bacteria starter, the stuff you see at the LFS that says live bacteria inside. Although you can absolutely do it without it, it can help get the population started quickly.

Yeah that’s what dr time is
 
This is the only reason I don't like the table shrimp method. There is no way to know how much ammonia it is contributing to the system. We don't know if it is still breaking down and releasing ammonia. The lack of nitrates is also a wildcard. I can't imagine that it is actually correct but without knowing exactly what is going on there I'm not sure I can help much.

API test kits?

Would a piece of live rock help out? How about a large sponge from my sump? My live rock has some cyano on it but I hope that won’t effect the new rock
 
submersion time and ammonia


from dry rock up, you need closer to 40 days submersion time and you need to reset your entire water table to test it accurately at that point. what its at now wont matter, you are halfway through the known submersion time it takes to bring up dry rock when doing a guesstimate type cycle which shrimp cycling is (and this is not bad)

did you use wet pack caribsea live sand in the setup initially? post pics if you can

the counter option is keeping ammonia carefully at 2 ppm per tims complete instructions, and the timing of addition of bottled bac, then you can bring up dry rocks in 15 days. yours is the easier approach, due to variation in both testing and shrimp degredation you'll need the month+ten days.

after 40 days with shrimp and dr tims bottled bacteria having been added, change all your water back to zero params. use ammonium chloride only to drive the system to 1 ppm ammonia

then test in 24 hours, if its less in any way, you are cycled. it doesn't have to be zero for reasons covered in searches... getting 20 hobby test ammonia kits to read zero for 20 people happens 20% of the time, so we just look for movement.

also, you could skip testing at that point, its a known completion date anyway for the type of cycle you are doing. at forty days you could change out everything and add a handful of zoanthids and get going lightly. complete your fallow period for fish, that stops disease and ages you tank a bit better at the same time.
 
submersion time and ammonia


from dry rock up, you need closer to 40 days submersion time and you need to reset your entire water table to test it accurately at that point. what its at now wont matter, you are halfway through the known submersion time it takes to bring up dry rock when doing a guesstimate type cycle which shrimp cycling is (and this is not bad)

did you use wet pack caribsea live sand in the setup initially? post pics if you can

the counter option is keeping ammonia carefully at 2 ppm per tims complete instructions, and the timing of addition of bottled bac, then you can bring up dry rocks in 15 days. yours is the easier approach, due to variation in both testing and shrimp degredation you'll need the month+ten days.

after 40 days with shrimp and dr tims bottled bacteria having been added, change all your water back to zero params. use ammonium chloride only to drive the system to 1 ppm ammonia

then test in 24 hours, if its less in any way, you are cycled. it doesn't have to be zero for reasons covered in searches... getting 20 hobby test ammonia kits to read zero for 20 people happens 20% of the time, so we just look for movement.

also, you could skip testing at that point, its a known completion date anyway for the type of cycle you are doing.


I’ve never heard of this 40 day plan. Fish of hex claimed his dry rock cycled in 3 weeks in a brute the same way I’m doing mine except he used some other brand of bottled bacteria
 
Yes, a small piece of live rock would help. If you already have an established aquarium, throw in a small amount of live rock (a pound or two) into the tank for a booster population of bacteria. I'd also dump some "filter squeezings" from any spongy material you have in the tank and dump it in with the cycling rock.
 
Would a piece of live rock help out? How about a large sponge from my sump? My live rock has some cyano on it but I hope that won’t effect the new rock
Live rock and sponges would both help. I would do a water change to get NH3/NH4 below 5ppm first though. Ammonia above 5ppm won't kill bacteria but it is less than ideal.

And don't be afraid of the cyano. There are plenty of ways to deal with it and different strains are always floating through the air. You couldn't keep it out of your new tank if you tried.
 
Live rock and sponges would both help. I would do a water change to get NH3/NH4 below 5ppm first though. Ammonia above 5ppm won't kill bacteria but it is less than ideal.

And don't be afraid of the cyano. There are plenty of ways to deal with it and different strains are always floating through the air. You couldn't keep it out of your new tank if you tried.

Okay so I’ll add a piece of live rock and a large sponge that has been in the tank for 7 months to my brute trash can but before that do a 5 gallon water change? That’s about 40%
 
Okay so I’ll add a piece of live rock and a large sponge that has been in the tank for 7 months to my brute trash can but before that do a 5 gallon water change? That’s about 40%
I think that would be a very wise plan.
 
agreed, you can do it within 3 weeks, 40 days is 100% completion across tanks

most cycling threads are API ammonia, occasionally red sea nowadays, and they're not cross verified. threads that track cycling completion date show massive variance in testing reliance, so we developed known submersion times that cover all 3 common cycles

-live rock moved from tank to tank

-dry rock cycles

-mixed cycles of the two (these three comprise 97% of all cycling threads)

his type of cycle would likely be done before 40 days, but then for sure. this removes the headache of depending on a test.

we also have a way to run a complete dry system cycle at the 15 day mark...without testing, due to known bacterial rates given certain controls.

online calculators show how much AC to add, given the %, to a given volume to get the 1-2 ppm and it works every time due to dilution chemistry.

from that addition, and the timed addition of bottled bac, the system can be ran out to day 15 then fully changed, then oxidation tested, and it will pass. the nitrite and nitrate are both fully known from the amnt of ammonia added, no need to test and verify whats already known. when tests don't back things up, the tester instantly doubts the biology and that's how api has impacted us bigtime.


testing never determines the endpoint of a cycle, submersion time with known boosters determines it, and a portion of cyclers are able to render test kits to back up that claim. If we rely on testing, then ten thousand stuck cycle .25 threads will be the result, though those tanks were cycled long into the supposed pause.

testing of final wastewater is another huge issue, reset the water table if you can to make things easier, after the known sub time. much of the false nitrite stalled cycled threads are wastewater testing after 5x the normal amnts of raw ammonia added... plus they're using Prime which is a known api nitrite test adulterant. but not known to most nitrite testers....so we eliminated nitrite testing altogether in the microbiology of cycling thread.

ammonia and submersion time, so easy, so consistent.

in this particular case, shrimp cycling is so varied that the ammonia amnts could have spiked and troughed at intervals AC measured use would have never done. That there might be weird metabolites going on in this tank above isn't strange, its shrimp cycling. his bacteria likely are close to getting set, a couple weeks seals it tho.

ammonium chloride guided cycling is sleek n fast and predictable as well.
 
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And you’re sure the algae on there won’t effect the new dry rock? I’d hate to start out with algae on my new build I’m excited about
Algae, or cyanobacteria?

You can't keep cyano out of your system. Its not worth trying. As for algae, it depends on the type. If it is a turf algae, bubble algae, or bryopsis I would likely try to avoid it. If it is hair algae, it would be welcome in my system. In fact, algae helps control ammonia by consuming it directly.
 
And you’re sure the algae on there won’t effect the new dry rock? I’d hate to start out with algae on my new build I’m excited about
You are going to get algae on the new dry rock no matter what you do. I'd make sure there was no bubble algae or Aptasia or other problems going in with the dry rock, but if you put sterile live rock in a new fish tank it's going to grow algae.

So long as you are not cycling the dry rock under reef lighting, the rocks you cycle will be "algae free" when you put them in the tank, but will begin to grow algae once under reef lighting.
 
This might be overly simplifying.. but, didn't see where it was specifically mentioned. Is the shrimp still in there decaying? If so, the ammonia is going to continue to rise since it hasn't been enough time for the bacteria to build up to proportions to handle that much ammonia.
 

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