Dry Rock Display - Live Rock Sump

[tmnails]

As more and more bottle bacteria and critter kits become available, it seems like the debate of live rock vs dry rock starts is still pretty torn down the middle.

The most reasonable answer seems to be: "What are you willing to live with?"

For live rock:
The microfauna simply can not be matched. The bacteria and microbial life present on ocean farmed rock such as TBS is immensely beneficial and many attribute the long term stability of their tank to just that - diversity. Not to mention the bloom of extra visible life that comes with the rock. However, no one can guarantee against pest hitch hikers, which prove to be the main argument against live rock, be it vermetid snails, mantis shrimp (which happened to kill dozens of fish in my first tank until i baked all my rock), bristle worms, ect.

For dry rock:
Complete control of your system is attractive to many, especially those with patience and those who have dealt with a significant pest problem before. Bottle bacteria provides a very real alternative to starting the cycling of the tank, and many simply don't care that it takes longer or if they deal with algae issues along the way. After 6 months to a year, many full dry start tanks look similar to live rock tanks from a distance. Up close however, many feel that there simply is not the same "life" as there is with live rock.

The question I'd like to ask is:
What are the risks of starting a new tank with 100% dry rock in the display, and some live rock from TBS in the sump?

Firstly, will this effectively seed the display? Do we know how much microfauna leaves the rock and becomes waterborne vs how much needs to be physically touching another rock to spread? Will things like sponges, featherdusters, and coral hitch hikers be able to reproduce in the display without ever leaving the sump?

And secondly, how effective would this be for keeping out pests? I'm sure nuisance algae would spread to the display, but that is easily dealt with. The main concern seems to be predators like bristle worms, vermetid snails, and mantis shrimp. How likely is it that these critters (or their eggs) could make it past a sponge block filter and through the return pump successfully infecting the display?

After the research I've done so far, this is the direction i'm leaning. It seems to present the most gain while mitigating MOST of the risk, but at the end of the day I'm just assuming. What do you all think?

Thanks to everyone for reading my rant, and to those who have knowledge in this area (especially facts or experience with this method), I would love your advice.

 

[Reef-Tank]

Interesting. Big problem is bugs can pass through the filter easy like RED BUG they too small to pass through would damage your corals once they reach to your display tank. Just my 2 cents!

 

[ahiggins]

IMO, after doing a 100% dry start, nothing beats clean live rock. Or even semi clean live rock. I built a rock nem only tank with the ONLY transferable surface area being snail shells. I still got GHA, still had vermitid. I had to ask lfs for micro stars, stomatella.
having done both, I’ll never do another dry start again.

 

[tmnails]

IMO, after doing a 100% dry start, nothing beats clean live rock. Or even semi clean live rock. I built a rock nem only tank with the ONLY transferable surface area being snail shells. I still got GHA, still had vermitid. I had to ask lfs for micro stars, stomatella.
having done both, I’ll never do another dry start again.

Hair algae, I'm not too afraid of. I'll be running an algae scrubber and getting a few tangs. I've never had vermitid, so I've never even researched how to deal with them.

My biggest fears are bristle worms and mantis shrimp. Seriously I have PTSD from all the clicking at night, knowing he was murdering things in my tank.

But I definitely want the diversity of live rock. I was thinking of getting 50-75 lbs from TBS for my sump if anyone thinks that will be effective...

 

[SPSReeferMI]

Following along.

I started my tank in May (7 months back) with all dry rock. I consider it a test of patience! If I was starting over, I’d heavily consider TBS Live Rock in the main display. I’m curious to hear more about the impact of adding live rock to just the sump.

 

[LondonJon]

I am Pondering the same question!

my first feed tank was exclusively live rock (20 years ago) and worked very well.

my next tank will be large (15 feet long, 4 feet tall, 6 feet front to Back) and I see no real option other than going dry rock in the display tank.

dry rock would allow time to position everything exactly how I want it, before water is added. In such a large tank it would be difficult to work with live rock. I would be climbing into the tank for most of the setup process!
like you, I was thinking of adding live Rock into the sump, and other containers outside of the display tank, and would also like to know what the likely hood of having nasties enter the display tank are. I guess there is some risk, but not as much as if the rock is in the display tank itself.

good bacteria etc. I would expect to populate throughout the system. The same with coraline that would come on the live rock.

I guess my real question is, given that I have already decided to go dry rock for the display tank, is there any huge benefit in putting live rock outside the display tank, iris the risk not worth it.

 

[tmnails]

Good bacteria etc. I would expect to populate throughout the system. The same with coraline that would come on the live rock.

I guess my real question is, given that I have already decided to go dry rock for the display tank, is there any huge benefit in putting live rock outside the display tank, iris the risk not worth it.

Exactly! I'm assuming that having live rock in the sump is significantly safer than having it in direct contact with the dry rock in the display, at least from a pest standpoint. Red bugs is one, and I'm assuming glass anemones might make their way through, and various algae... But those can mostly be dealt with. It's the predators that scare me.

And yes to aqua scaping with dry. Definitely easier.

 

[AlexG]

I started my tank with dry rock in the displays and then I added live rock to my refugium and live sand(actual live sand from the ocean) to one of my displays to mix in with the dry sand. I effectivly seeded my entire system with lots of micro fauna so this system does work. It will also keep larger unwanted hitchhikers like gorilla crabs isolated.

 

[ahiggins]

There’s a company in florida that sells cultivated live rock and full on live rock. It’s expensive but the cultivate it in the ocean, ship wet, and no pests guaranteed. I told myself if I ever build a decent size tank -that’s where I’m buying my live rock. The pics are incredible.

 

[LondonJon]

not only easier, but more of a chance to make things look more real using cement to hold things in place.

too many aquariums I see, just look like a pile of rocks.

 

[LondonJon]

I started my tank with dry rock in the displays and then I added live rock to my refugium and live sand(actual live sand from the ocean) to one of my displays to mix in with the dry sand. I effectivly seeded my entire system with lots of micro fauna so this system does work. It will also keep larger unwanted hitchhikers like gorilla crabs isolated.

How long did it take for coralline to start growing on the dry rock?
mans how long for it to completely take over?

 

[LondonJon]

There’s a company in florida that sells cultivated live rock and full on live rock. It’s expensive but the cultivate it in the ocean, ship wet, and no pests guaranteed. I told myself if I ever build a decent size tank -that’s where I’m buying my live rock. The pics are incredible.

You got a link?

 

[ahiggins]

You got a link?

My mistake-not guarenteed on pests but they give you directions on how to vacate them and “cure” for our uses. I had to go find it again lol

Premium Aquacultured Live Rock - Overnight to your Door - In water

Aquacultured live rock is one of our specialties. You will get one of the best live rock available in the industry. Forget about painted rock with no life.

www.kpaquatics.com

If I ever order for a dream build-this will be it. The uncured so I can pick and choose what I want.

My dry build, started about 7-8 months ago, and I’m now seeing spec to dime size coralline covering rocks now. The rocks went from white to bright green, light green, dark green/grey. Coralline showed up in tiny specs around the bright green stage in certain high light areas. I didn’t seed either so everything came on snails that’s in there now.

 

[flsalty]

"Life will find a way."

A sponge filter will keep out the mantis shrimp, but not much else. And no matter how meticulous you think you are, you will still get the bad stuff even if you start out with dry rock.

 

[ahiggins]

"Life will find a way."

A sponge filter will keep out the mantis shrimp, but not much else. And no matter how meticulous you think you are, you will still get the bad stuff even if you start out with dry rock.

Can vouch for that lol I thought stocking nems only would eliminate nuisance things. Forgot about snails/crab shells

 

[tmnails]

My mistake-not guarenteed on pests but they give you directions on how to vacate them and “cure” for our uses. I had to go find it again lol

Premium Aquacultured Live Rock - Overnight to your Door - In water

Aquacultured live rock is one of our specialties. You will get one of the best live rock available in the industry. Forget about painted rock with no life.

www.kpaquatics.com

If I ever order for a dream build-this will be it. The uncured so I can pick and choose what I want.

This looks trustworthy. I'll be researching this for sure. Interesting they recommend the high salinity dip. I've heard of other reefers doing this and I've tried it myself, but I haven't heard of a vendor actually recommending it...

I wonder how much of that cool Coraline will make its way to the display if I keep the rock in my sump. That orange in those pictures is too cool!

"Life will find a way" lol I always thought it was "LOVE will find a way." Haha.

 

[tmnails]

I started my tank with dry rock in the displays and then I added live rock to my refugium and live sand(actual live sand from the ocean) to one of my displays to mix in with the dry sand. I effectivly seeded my entire system with lots of micro fauna so this system does work. It will also keep larger unwanted hitchhikers like gorilla crabs isolated.

This is awesome. Are there any pests in your display that you feel came from the live rock in your sump? And does it seem like most of the desireable life from those rocks found its way to the dry rock? Like different species of coralline, feather dusters, any sponges, ect?

 

[CuzzA]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about live rock from the Gulf of Mexico and live rock from the the Indo Pacific.

There's no red bugs, no aptasia. Honestly, about the only pests to be concerned about are stone and gorilla crabs, pistol shrimp and mantis shrimp. All of which can pretty easily be trapped. I had one final gorilla crab in my tank from when I seeded my dry pukani and was able to put a skewer through it and feed it to my anemone a couple days ago.

Putting quality live rock in the sump doesn't make much sense to me. I doubt you'll end up with all the cool stuff in your display. Just yesterday I saw a limpet for the first time. Things are always poping up and almost all are beneficial and there's no way a limpet is going to go from sump to display. That's just one example.

 

[eschaton]

I would think things like red bugs would not be a concern with purchased live rock. I mean, dedicated coral predators need to have access to coral. Even if a few red bugs (or sundial snails, or bad nudis, etc) end up on the rock, if you wait a reasonable period of time before introducing coral to the display tank you'll starve them out. Unless you end up with a coral colony attached to the TBS rock which is already infested with something.

What I would worry about would be things like aptasia or red planaria - which are more similar to algae, in that they tend to have outbreaks in tanks with poor husbandry.

I have a TBS order coming as soon as storms let up down there. I understand the risky hitchhikers in their rock. All of them are more dangers to fish, trappable, and - most importantly - don't breed in your tank. Thus the problem has an expiration date, more or less.

 

[AlexG]

How long did it take for coralline to start growing on the dry rock?
mans how long for it to completely take over?

Coraline algae started spreading to the displays within a couple of months and after about a year it was more or less 100% coverage in both displays. I was looking back at my videos from 2018 and it can be seen progressively taking over the displays. I normally brush a rock with coraline in the tank to help spread the algae around. Not sure if it actually helps but its what I have been doing for my last two setups.