Dry Rock Question

JL15219 · Mar 4, 2021

jarviz said:
does it matter at that point tho? i'm not trying be arrogant. i'm genuinely asking. There's nothing in the tank and you just let the cycle run it's course till you have 0 ammonia and nitrates no? didn't people used to throw an entire shrimp to jump start ammonia?

Yeah that was my thought process as well....but I have never kept Saltwater fish only freshwater ...maybe I missed something

jarviz · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
How is there die off from dry rock if it was never alive? I don't understand

my theory is that there is dead bacteria and other tiny little organisms in the pores and crevices that we can't see; or micro-organism that live on the dry rock (when out of the water) and then die when the rock gets placed in the water. all that will prob leach into the water as ammonia eventually.

vetteguy53081 · Mar 5, 2021

jarviz said:
does it matter at that point tho? i'm not trying be arrogant. i'm genuinely asking. There's nothing in the tank and you just let the cycle run it's course till you have 0 ammonia and nitrates no? didn't people used to throw an entire shrimp to jump start ammonia?

Rock is porous and hangs on to anything it encounters. Copper is an example- if you add copper, the copper will remain at low level
The shrimp method still exists. The purpose is to cause a spike and through testing, it should come down to safe level if there is sufficient bacteria to accomplish this.

jarviz · Mar 5, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Rock is porous and hangs on to anything it encounters. Copper is an example- if you add copper, the copper will remain at low level
The shrimp method still exists. The purpose is to cause a spike and through testing, it should come down to safe level if there is sufficient bacteria to accomplish this.

Does curing get rid of copper? i thought curing only helped remove die-offs... so i guess my question is still why do we need to cure a rock if we're going to cycle them in the tank anyways? does it help reduce the cycling time?

vetteguy53081 · Mar 5, 2021

jarviz said:
Does curing get rid of copper? i thought curing only helped remove die-offs... so i guess my question is still why do we need to cure a rock if we're going to cycle them in the tank anyways? does it help reduce the cycling time?

Yes. Cycle time is reduced as it can help with filtering and denitrification

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Yes. Cycle time is reduced as it can help with filtering and denitrification

So if cycle time is reduced how long will the process take more or less in the bucket method? And I will be adding the Dr Tim's ammonia as well right just like if I were going to do it in the tank right?

GaryE · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
How long has it been running?

Since August.

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

GaryE said:
Since August.

you just rinsed them with tap or rodi water?

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Yes. Cycle time is reduced as it can help with filtering and denitrification

Also do I need to rinse them prior to adding them to the bucket? Rodi water or tap?

Ippyroy · Mar 5, 2021

The biggest advantage to cycling in a Brute can or bucket is that doing a 100% water change is super easy and much cheaper than doing it in tank. I forget the exact numbers, but X amount of ammonia equals Y amount of Nitrates. A 100% water change removes all of the nitrates. Dry rock can also leach PO4. By doing multiple 100% water changes, you can reduce most of this.
The biggest disadvantage to this method is it is hard to scape in water. You can cut down on the ugly stage by doing this method, but your scape may not be that nice to start off with. After you add the rock to your tank, you can usually add fish within a week. I highly recommend adding the live sand and mud from ipsf.com. It will help your tank build more biodiversity right from the start. Good Luck!

GaryE · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
you just rinsed them with tap or rodi water?

Tap water, but I am on a well. I did let them dry before they went in the tank.

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

Ippyroy said:
The biggest advantage to cycling in a Brute can or bucket is that doing a 100% water change is super easy and much cheaper than doing it in tank. I forget the exact numbers, but X amount of ammonia equals Y amount of Nitrates. A 100% water change removes all of the nitrates. Dry rock can also leach PO4. By doing multiple 100% water changes, you can reduce most of this.
The biggest disadvantage to this method is it is hard to scape in water. You can cut down on the ugly stage by doing this method, but your scape may not be that nice to start off with. After you add the rock to your tank, you can usually add fish within a week. I highly recommend adding the live sand and mud from ipsf.com. It will help your tank build more biodiversity right from the start. Good Luck!

When using the bucket method do the rocks need to be rinsed in RODI or is tap fine? And do they need to dry before I put it in the bucket?

vetteguy53081 · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
Also do I need to rinse them prior to adding them to the bucket? Rodi water or tap?

Either works

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

vetteguy53081 said:
Either works

Okay thank you

Ippyroy · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
Okay thank you

Either works. I'd use tap since its easier. A pressure washer works wonders if the rock is really dirty.

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

Ippyroy said:
Either works. I'd use tap since its easier. A pressure washer works wonders if the rock is really dirty.

Will I need a pump in the bucket or is it fine without? Im asking because I going to try and fit 35lbs of rock in a 5 gallon bucket not sure if its even possible lol

Kongar · Mar 5, 2021

With dry rock - you can just throw it in your tank and begin the cycle. Probably a good idea to rinse it first though - lots of dust will come off it and save you the hassle of filtering it out once you add water. Starting with 100% dry rock is a long process to tank maturity. That's why people are recommending throwing it into a trash can or a sump for a while. That'll seed it with some bacteria, and that helps your new tank. But that can just as easily be done in the display tank as well. You just gotta slow down - don't be surprised when you see a massive dino outbreak, or super ugly stage 6 months into your tank. If I were to do it all over again, and I couldn't throw dry rock into a sump for a while first - I'd definitely drive to a local fish store and pick up at least one good chunk of live rock from them and throw it in the aquascape. It'll add some biodiversity right away and I'm convinced will make things go a little smoother during the first year.

Ippyroy · Mar 5, 2021

JL15219 said:
Will I need a pump in the bucket or is it fine without? Im asking because I going to try and fit 35lbs of rock in a 5 gallon bucket not sure if its even possible lol

Some kind of water circulation is needed. A maxijet 1200 will be one of the most used pumps you can have. Get a Brute 20 gallon trash can with lid. They are really cheap at Lowes or Home Depot. Put the maxijet on the bottom and connect a tube to it and have it sit on the top. You can use it to remove all the water for the 100% water changes.

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

Kongar said:
With dry rock - you can just throw it in your tank and begin the cycle. Probably a good idea to rinse it first though - lots of dust will come off it and save you the hassle of filtering it out once you add water. Starting with 100% dry rock is a long process to tank maturity. That's why people are recommending throwing it into a trash can or a sump for a while. That'll seed it with some bacteria, and that helps your new tank. But that can just as easily be done in the display tank as well. You just gotta slow down - don't be surprised when you see a massive dino outbreak, or super ugly stage 6 months into your tank. If I were to do it all over again, and I couldn't throw dry rock into a sump for a while first - I'd definitely drive to a local fish store and pick up at least one good chunk of live rock from them and throw it in the aquascape. It'll add some biodiversity right away and I'm convinced will make things go a little smoother during the first year.

Yeah that is what I initially wanted to do just cycle it in the tank.....there wasnt going to be any livestock in there till the nitrogen cycle was done and I was going to use Caribsea Agra live sand and Dr. Tims One and Only. I didnt use live rock because I thought from what I read that you could possibly get some bad things with the rocks I wanted to avoid that if possible but now I dont know if going dry was such a great idea

I guess I still dont understand what the bucket method vs just placing it in the tank....Is it that less algae will be introduced into the tank if I go bucket route? I understand what Ippyroy said that the biggest advantage is being able to do 100% water change and save money.

JL15219 · Mar 5, 2021

Ippyroy said:
Some kind of water circulation is needed. A maxijet 1200 will be one of the most used pumps you can have. Get a Brute 20 gallon trash can with lid. They are really cheap at Lowes or Home Depot. Put the maxijet on the bottom and connect a tube to it and have it sit on the top. You can use it to remove all the water for the 100% water changes.

Cool I will check those stores I actually already have a Rio+ 2500 pump that I used on my 125 gallon freshwater tank