Dry Rock Question

[Ippyroy]

Yeah no sump or fuge just a HOB filter....but all of this is added after the tank is cycled or while it is being cycled to jump start the cycle?

I would do it after adding your first fish. It will add micro fauna and make your rock closer to real live rock without the pests.

 

[8ne4t]

I'm putting all of my dry rock straight into my tank with sand and ammonia and letting it cure for many months before i begin quarantining new creatures, that's the advice on these forums so I just decided on doing it that way, without adding any of those corraline bottle stuff, just letting it do its own thing

 

[JL15219]

I'm putting all of my dry rock straight into my tank with sand and ammonia and letting it cure for many months before i begin quarantining new creatures, that's the advice on these forums so I just decided on doing it that way, without adding any of those corraline bottle stuff, just letting it do its own thing

So you were told to just add everything and let it do its own thing? Have you had any issues yet?

 

[Ippyroy]

I'm putting all of my dry rock straight into my tank with sand and ammonia and letting it cure for many months before i begin quarantining new creatures, that's the advice on these forums so I just decided on doing it that way, without adding any of those corraline bottle stuff, just letting it do its own thing

That can work for some people. I personally believe that it is the wrong way. In the beginning they used live rock from the ocean. If the rock came wrapped in paper, they would recommend curing it in a Brute can. If it came in water, they would just put it straight in the tank. They would then deal with the pests that came with the rock.
Now days, more and more people are using dry rock to start their tanks. Dry Rock comes with it's own issues, mostly being dead and full of phosphates that will continuously leach into the tank causing many issues, mostly nuisance algae. It take a long time for the dead rock to become live. It is not uncommon for people to eventually tear down these tanks and start over with live rock.
I am of the opinion that we need to find a better way, and that way is a combination of what we know will work. We have to figure out a way to make the dead rock become live. It had very little to do with nitrifying bacteria. Waiting 4 months or longer does not work. The micro fauns that our tanks need to thrive have to be put into the tank. They won't just appear like nitrifying bacteria.
There are multiple ways to add these things. Getting a rock from an established tank could be the best way, but you will be risking adding the tanks pests to your new tank. Adding lots of corrals will work, but if you are new, most will probably die. The best way in my opinion is aquabiomics.com rubble, but they have a very small amount that is hard to get. I have used ipsf.com and it worked great. My ugly stage was minimal, and I caused most of it.
You also need to remove the phosphates from the dry rock. There are multiple ways to do this. You could dose Lanathum Chloride. You could try running GFO or ChemiPure Elite. There are many different things that will bind with it and remove it. Water changes only work to remove PO4 with very large water changes because the PO4 will bind to rocks and sand. And you have to do them constantly and regularly for them to work. Once the tank is established, water changes are not an acceptable way to control PO4.
Taking a few months to cycle dry rock is a good idea. I agree with that, but I personally believe that the method we use needs to be looked at and changed slightly. Using 2 containers is my preferred method. Start the initial cycle in one. This one takes a month. It will establish your nitrifying bacteria. You could do this in your DT. I like having 2 containers because after the first month, you mix salt and RODI in the second container for 24 hours, the move the rocks over from the first container. You repeat this every 1 or 2 weeks until PO4 starts to drop. You are also removing all of the NO3.
You then add the rocks to your tank. The hardest part is scaping in water. You can then quickly add fish and turn on the lights. The next step is the hard part. you have to add the microfauna that will stop the dinos and other pest algae that cause so many people to give up and quit or tear it down and start over. I am simply tryin to share my experience and what worked for me. I am far from an expert, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Just kidding. I have had success on my first tank and I am just trying to get people to rethink what they seem to take as fact. BRS has set up numerous successful tanks. Full of corals from day one and little to no ugly stages. The one tank they didn't do this with was plagues with issues over and over. Newbies shouldn't do what they did. We will just kill the corals more than likely. So instead we need to figure out a different way. Once again, this is just my opinion that I formed from personal experience, watching numerous videos, reading countless posts, and reading a few books.

 

[Ippyroy]

Another method I am thinking about, is to just set a tank up like usual, with the sole intent of doing a rip clean in about 6 months or so when the uglies get out of control. You have remove the sand and rocks, rinse the sand repeatedly, and put it all back together. There are many people who have successfully done the rip clean method, but no one has planned on it from the beginning. Just an idea I am toying with.

 

[JL15219]

.

 

[JL15219]

That can work for some people. I personally believe that it is the wrong way. In the beginning they used live rock from the ocean. If the rock came wrapped in paper, they would recommend curing it in a Brute can. If it came in water, they would just put it straight in the tank. They would then deal with the pests that came with the rock.
Now days, more and more people are using dry rock to start their tanks. Dry Rock comes with it's own issues, mostly being dead and full of phosphates that will continuously leach into the tank causing many issues, mostly nuisance algae. It take a long time for the dead rock to become live. It is not uncommon for people to eventually tear down these tanks and start over with live rock.
I am of the opinion that we need to find a better way, and that way is a combination of what we know will work. We have to figure out a way to make the dead rock become live. It had very little to do with nitrifying bacteria. Waiting 4 months or longer does not work. The micro fauns that our tanks need to thrive have to be put into the tank. They won't just appear like nitrifying bacteria.
There are multiple ways to add these things. Getting a rock from an established tank could be the best way, but you will be risking adding the tanks pests to your new tank. Adding lots of corrals will work, but if you are new, most will probably die. The best way in my opinion is aquabiomics.com rubble, but they have a very small amount that is hard to get. I have used ipsf.com and it worked great. My ugly stage was minimal, and I caused most of it.
You also need to remove the phosphates from the dry rock. There are multiple ways to do this. You could dose Lanathum Chloride. You could try running GFO or ChemiPure Elite. There are many different things that will bind with it and remove it. Water changes only work to remove PO4 with very large water changes because the PO4 will bind to rocks and sand. And you have to do them constantly and regularly for them to work. Once the tank is established, water changes are not an acceptable way to control PO4.
Taking a few months to cycle dry rock is a good idea. I agree with that, but I personally believe that the method we use needs to be looked at and changed slightly. Using 2 containers is my preferred method. Start the initial cycle in one. This one takes a month. It will establish your nitrifying bacteria. You could do this in your DT. I like having 2 containers because after the first month, you mix salt and RODI in the second container for 24 hours, the move the rocks over from the first container. You repeat this every 1 or 2 weeks until PO4 starts to drop. You are also removing all of the NO3.
You then add the rocks to your tank. The hardest part is scaping in water. You can then quickly add fish and turn on the lights. The next step is the hard part. you have to add the microfauna that will stop the dinos and other pest algae that cause so many people to give up and quit or tear it down and start over. I am simply tryin to share my experience and what worked for me. I am far from an expert, but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. Just kidding. I have had success on my first tank and I am just trying to get people to rethink what they seem to take as fact. BRS has set up numerous successful tanks. Full of corals from day one and little to no ugly stages. The one tank they didn't do this with was plagues with issues over and over. Newbies shouldn't do what they did. We will just kill the corals more than likely. So instead we need to figure out a different way. Once again, this is just my opinion that I formed from personal experience, watching numerous videos, reading countless posts, and reading a few books.

Buying this rubble or other rubble doesnt introduce pest and algae?

 

[Ippyroy]

Buying this rubble or other rubble doesnt introduce pest and algae?

If you can get it, go for it. Don't be afraid of pest or algae. They are easy to deal with. Algae is going to happen. There is no way around it. The only thing we can do is minimize it and control it. I am on the waiting list for some of their rubble. From what I gather, it comes from a certified "clean" system. I am more than happy to take the risk and try it. I am not afraid of having to deal with some pests. It is always better to fight some pests in the beginning. It is a way to learn. After my first fight with pests, it was ulva, I felt more confident. Ulva is sea lettuce. It was growing every where. That is why I recommend removing from the water from ipsf. It went sexual and was a plague in my tank.

 

[JL15219]

If you can get it, go for it. Don't be afraid of pest or algae. They are easy to deal with. Algae is going to happen. There is no way around it. The only thing we can do is minimize it and control it. I am on the waiting list for some of their rubble. From what I gather, it comes from a certified "clean" system. I am more than happy to take the risk and try it. I am not afraid of having to deal with some pests. It is always better to fight some pests in the beginning. It is a way to learn. After my first fight with pests, it was ulva, I felt more confident. Ulva is sea lettuce. It was growing every where. That is why I recommend removing from the water from ipsf. It went sexual and was a plague in my tank.

What other clean sources do you recommend that might have it sooner?

 

[Dorinda]

does it matter at that point tho? i'm not trying be arrogant. i'm genuinely asking. There's nothing in the tank and you just let the cycle run it's course till you have 0 ammonia and nitrates no? didn't people used to throw an entire shrimp to jump start ammonia?

I just rinsed mine and put it in my tank with some live sand and let the cycle begin.

 

[Ippyroy]

What other clean sources do you recommend that might have it sooner?

That is the question. You could try your LFS. Buying one rock from a running system would be a good place to start. I would just try my best to make sure they are aiptasia free. Talk to a local reef club and check out local forums for the truthful and honest reviews.

 

[JL15219]

That is the question. You could try your LFS. Buying one rock from a running system would be a good place to start. I would just try my best to make sure they are aiptasia free. Talk to a local reef club and check out local forums for the truthful and honest reviews.

There is a lfs that specialize in Saltwater water tank builds and supplies....but how would I know if it is aiptasia free? And how would I do my best not to introduce pest and algae if they do sell live rock? I know you said to be afraid of the algae and pest but I do want to avoid if possible

 

[Ippyroy]

There is a lfs that specialize in Saltwater water tank builds and supplies....but how would I know if it is aiptasia free? And how would I do my best not to introduce pest and algae if they do sell live rock? I know you said to be afraid of the algae and pest but I do want to avoid if possible

Try your best to avoid, but don't be upset when something slips through. The best way to spot aiptasia is to look. Go in every couple of days and look around. Talk to the clerks and ask questions. Confirm their answers on here. If they are giving your good advice then you can trust them. Some LFS are known to be more in the business of sales than help. Check their reviews on Yelp and TripAdvisor. That is always a good start.

 

[jarviz]

why do you need to cure live rock? wouldn't that kill all the beneficial bactiera as well? i thought the whole point of live rock was so you can start the tank almost immediately from the beneficial bacteria... how do you get rid of the bad stuff without killing the good stuff?

 

[jarviz]

I just rinsed mine and put it in my tank with some live sand and let the cycle begin.

you're talking about dry rock right? that's exactly how i started my tank too.. plus some nitrifying bacteria and threw in a couple of tiny hermits/snails shortly after to get thigns going

 

[Screwgunner]

Dry rock in trash can for three months with a piece of shrimp . Changed water completely twice to get nitrates down . Put in tank added Dr. Tims and biospera and fish. After a couple weeks copapods . After that I would wait for a while before corals.

 

[jarviz]

Dry rock in trash can for three months with a piece of shrimp . Changed water completely twice to get nitrates down . Put in tank added Dr. Tims and biospera and fish. After a couple weeks copapods . After that I would wait for a while before corals.

why not just do that in the tank? what are you doing with the sand during that time?

 

[Screwgunner]

No sand bare bottom for me this round. If you go with live sand it will help turn your rock to live rock again. But you do not know what is in it. After awhile little critters will start popping up. It will help your cycle also.

 

[Screwgunner]

Curing live rock does not kill the bacteria but most bad things on it need light to live remove the light it dies and your nitrates go up. Plus rock will hold phosphate curing will get alot of it out.

 

[JL15219]

No sand bare bottom for me this round. If you go with live sand it will help turn your rock to live rock again. But you do not know what is in it. After awhile little critters will start popping up. It will help your cycle also.

Why bare bottom this round? I'm planning on using Caribsea live sand