Dsnakes 125g Mixed Reef

[User]

Ouch, hope all is well now...?

My wife's a microbiologist, and a few years ago she started sending me articles and talking about whole families going to the ER, pets dying, etc. She studies bacteria, viruses, toxins, etc. and finally convinced me to get rid of my Palys/Zoas. They're great and all, but just not a risk we want to take with the family.

I know many people keep them safely, and most rarely have issues, especially if you understand what you're dealing with and take the proper precautions.

Cool- another bug and virus geek. Where is she working?

I was an assistant prof, but we relocated to be closer to wife’s family after my tenure bid got canned. Now in ATL and will be going for a section head job at CDC once my citizenship papers go through.

 

[Snitch]

palytoxin is no joke - I've been poisoned a few times and it seems every time it gets worse and worse every time. Zoanthids, not so much, but palys - I won't keep them anymore, especially those old school doo-doo brown ones. Flatwork toxins are nasty too - me and a friend of mine were breaking down my old 125 that had those typical aecoel flatworms, so I treated the trash cans that I was placing the rock into with Flatworm Exit. We were fine for a while, not really thinking about it, then we both felt nauseous and started getting the shakes... started feeling dizzy, metallic taste in the mouth, etc. Come to find out my friend ended up in the hospital to have his appendix removed the very next day - coincidence? I think those flatworms had something to do with it personally.

 

[User]

palytoxin is no joke - I've been poisoned a few times and it seems every time it gets worse and worse every time. Zoanthids, not so much, but palys - I won't keep them anymore, especially those old school doo-doo brown ones. Flatwork toxins are nasty too - me and a friend of mine were breaking down my old 125 that had those typical aecoel flatworms, so I treated the trash cans that I was placing the rock into with Flatworm Exit. We were fine for a while, not really thinking about it, then we both felt nauseous and started getting the shakes... started feeling dizzy, metallic taste in the mouth, etc. Come to find out my friend ended up in the hospital to have his appendix removed the very next day - coincidence? I think those flatworms had something to do with it personally.

Appendix? Yes, coincidence. If you’d said liver transplant- yes, absolutely.

The symptoms get worse because your body creates antibodies against it after the first exposure. Problem is, your body sucks at antibodies against carbohydrates and polysaccharides (it doesn’t normally try this, but palytoxin is so potent, your body *needs to do something* to defend itself) and during subsequent exposures, your antibodies end up also fighting against polysaccharides and carbohydrates in the cell membrane of YOUR cells- essentially an autoimmune reaction.

Because of this- repeated exposure can lead to a VERY BAD TIME... deathbed kinda bad.

Wear a respirator and full PPE. I’m serious- take care of yourself

 

[ReeferPat]

Yeah, that’ll be it. It is extremely potent. Personally, due to the risk, I’d throw away anything it came in contact with (obviously not a powerhead or heater or anything) instead of messing about trying to clean it and risk my family.

Funny thing is, I don’t even think they are that pretty anyway, so no great loss to me.

I’m a torch, ricordia and micromussa man, personally

By "throw away anything it came in contact with," do you mean rocks? It must eventually disappear from the tank no?

 

[User]

By "throw away anything it came in contact with," do you mean rocks? It must eventually disappear from the tank no?

I’d keep rocks and equipment, but toss brushes, floss, Armani shirts, stuff like that.

 

[ReeferPat]

Armani shirt. Check...

 

[Snitch]

Appendix? Yes, coincidence.

Awe man - that takes the fun out of it - to this day he thinks I tried to kill him

 

[SkiCatTX]

Cool- another bug and virus geek. Where is she working?

I was an assistant prof, but we relocated to be closer to wife’s family after my tenure bid got canned. Now in ATL and will be going for a section head job at CDC once my citizenship papers go through.

UT Dental School, Houston

 

[ReeferPat]

I’d keep rocks and equipment, but toss brushes, floss, Armani shirts, stuff like that.

OK, I just did the dumbest thing ever and went to the interwebs for more info on palytoxin. Other than randomly finding out from WebMD that a small mole on my finger is most likely a deadly cancer, it appears that palytoxin is indeed a rather serious issue. Couple questions since you appear to know a bit about it. There have been incidents of the toxin becoming aerolized when hobbyists have boiled rocks when they found and tried to kill unwanted corals - not sure why they took this route in the first place but oh well. Short of boiling a rock, can the toxin reach the air when it is released under water at normal temps? Also, what is the most responsible way of getting rid of it? I don't want to make anyone else sick after all.

 

[User]

OK, I just did the dumbest thing ever and went to the interwebs for more info on palytoxin. Other than randomly finding out from WebMD that a small mole on my finger is most likely a deadly cancer, it appears that palytoxin is indeed a rather serious issue. Couple questions since you appear to know a bit about it. There have been incidents of the toxin becoming aerolized when hobbyists have boiled rocks when they found and tried to kill unwanted corals - not sure why they took this route in the first place but oh well. Short of boiling a rock, can the toxin reach the air when it is released under water at normal temps? Also, what is the most responsible way of getting rid of it? I don't want to make anyone else sick after all.

lol, yeah, dont WebMD stuff unless you want to turn into a hypochondriac.

1) toxin reaching the air if released underwater at normal temp? Take a look above your overflow, or above an air stone. See that? all that white salt creep. That got there by aerosolised droplets thrown up by the turbulence. So yes, possible. Unless the toxin was released right into the bubble stream, dilution throughout the rest of the tank would make the dose extremely low. Unlikely to cause harm unless you put your face into the spatter and inhale it or let it get into your mucous membranes.

2) sit the rock out in the sun and let it dry out, or sit it in a bucket of kitty litter to dessicate it, then put the rock and dryed up toxin blob into a bucket of EITHER neat white vinegar OR cold 5% bleach solution. never mix bleach and an acid, even if its just the amount exchanged during transfer. you'll make mustard gas. let it sit 24 hours, then pull it out and re-dry it before you wrap it up in a couple grocery bags and tie it tight and toss it in the trash.

#2 is based on how we detoxify equipment after producing toxin-based vaccine components.

 

[Dsnakes]

Any thoughts here @tdlawdo @neilp2006 @Sleepydoc ?

Thanks for the tags!

https://www.aao.org/eyenet/article/corneal-toxicity-after-exposure-to-aquarium-coral

I actually found and read that this morning. It was a good write up.

Personally- I’d go to the emergency dept and have them check it it. Take a tablet and set the browser in the the wiki on palytoxin and tell them exactly what you were doing. It’s unlikely they’ll know what to do right off the bat, but they’ll probably rinse it again and have an ophthalmologist come check you out. A slightly acidic or alkaline rinse will help neutralize any remaining toxin- it’s extremely stable in regular tap water.

Next time- you’re going to be paranoid about face protection and a respirator. That’s good. If you were using a mask, try to identify how that water got past the protection and fix it. a full face mask is relatively inexpensive but worth it if it stops you going blind or getting the toxin into your mouth

I had thought about going if it had gotten worse. It’s still a bit red but seems to be going away.

Ouch, hope all is well now...?

My wife's a microbiologist, and a few years ago she started sending me articles and talking about whole families going to the ER, pets dying, etc. She studies bacteria, viruses, toxins, etc. and finally convinced me to get rid of my Palys/Zoas. They're great and all, but just not a risk we want to take with the family.

I know many people keep them safely, and most rarely have issues, especially if you understand what you're dealing with and take the proper precautions.

Seems to be getting better.


It very we could have been something other than palytoxin. It just happened after the incident so I figured it was that or some bacteria in the water.

 

[RichtheReefer21]

Thanks for the tags!

Seems to be getting better.


It very we could have been something other than palytoxin. It just happened after the incident so I figured it was that or some bacteria in the water.

Playing with fire bud! My buddy and I fragged about 20 pieces of Zoa over the last 2 weeks... safety glasses were required. Some of the high end zoas literally spit at you.

 

[Dsnakes]

I managed to thoroughly clean my glass tonight which was long overdue. I also stirred some junk out of the sand. I’m going to siphon some algae tomorrow and then perhaps I’ll try and get a few decent pictures.

I’ve been occupied since getting my boys their own fishing rods! We’re lucky to have a pond at the end of our street. Much easier than dragging through the sand at the beach for a quick trip.

He caught the bass but made me hold it

 

[Fudsey]

Very cool Dad thing to do ! ! !

 

[NY_Caveman]

Nice! I am currently planning a fishing excursion for my daughters. Not the fly fishing I grew up doing, but should be super fun. The girls have been begging me to take them fishing. Go figure.

 

[hdsoftail1065]

Your boys will always remember those times they went fishing with Dad.

 

[mta_morrow]

Super cool. So great to see a Dad loving time with his kids. It make the world a better place.

I remember everything I ever did with my Dad.

 

[RichtheReefer21]

Nice! I am currently planning a fishing excursion for my daughters. Not the fly fishing I grew up doing, but should be super fun. The girls have been begging me to take them fishing. Go figure.

I might know a few shiny spots tucked away in the berkshires

 

[Katrina71]

Your boys are so cute! I'm glad y'all are having fun!

 

[Dsnakes]

Cleaning day! I really need to get on a better schedule for this. I shouldn’t need a deep cleaning day if I kept up with daily tasks