Everyone has heard that you should always have a backup return pump running since you never know when a pump will fail. I was thinking instead of having 2 pumps constantly running, if you had an apex couldn't you just run 2 cor-15/20? then instead of having them both running at the sametime just have one on standby so that if the primary one drew to much or two little wattage, it would shut down and then the backup would take over?
dual return pumps
- Thread starter SeeFu
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That might work. I would like to hear what others say. But I like to have my backup pump on a separate circuit not connected to my Apex. Also, I don’t have experience with that pump. But choosing a very reliable pump will be best long term as you can imagine. I have great success with both eheim and mag drives.
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
I have a feeling keep it simple stupid KISS applies here. One solid pump running and a backup in the house with the ability to quickly swap it out would give better results overall then 2 in the sump and a more complicated plan.
billwill
Well-Known Member
I disagree with the concept that “everyone knows we should do this”. We’re not running data centers, and our systems don’t die because water stops going through our sump. Failure of your wave pumps in the tank are a far bigger concern, don’t you think? Lack of motion in the tank with hurt the livestock far faster than no skimmer and return flow. Heaters are the only argument I can think of for redundant standby pumps
Valid points for sure. Inside the tank flow is most important. I do enjoy the peace of mind of pump redundancy when I travel though.
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
Redundancy makes sense if you use cheap parts and the cost to take those cheap parts and make redundant cost much less then one really really good pump plugged into a wall. You see this in IT all the time. It is the basis behind the whole idea.
In reefing though i have discovered simplicity with high quality parts gives more reliability then multiple cheaper solutions especially when you toss in a controller with a plan that will take action maybe once every 3 years if that.
Murphys law states something will go wrong while you are away. The coding required to catch every odd ball situation in a controller might not be as trivial as it seems. Naturally the redundancy plan will fail while you are away.
Better if on vacation would be to set the spare pump next to the tank, controller alarms you something is wrong, and the tank sitter can super easily unscrew some union pvc point and swap out the pump in 10 minutes flat.
After all a high quality red dragon pump might fail... what.. every 10 years if that? I decided to simply invest in a 800 dollar return and be done with it. I dont even keep a spare but then my live stock only totals in the 1000s.. not 10s of thousands.
In reefing though i have discovered simplicity with high quality parts gives more reliability then multiple cheaper solutions especially when you toss in a controller with a plan that will take action maybe once every 3 years if that.
Murphys law states something will go wrong while you are away. The coding required to catch every odd ball situation in a controller might not be as trivial as it seems. Naturally the redundancy plan will fail while you are away.
Better if on vacation would be to set the spare pump next to the tank, controller alarms you something is wrong, and the tank sitter can super easily unscrew some union pvc point and swap out the pump in 10 minutes flat.
After all a high quality red dragon pump might fail... what.. every 10 years if that? I decided to simply invest in a 800 dollar return and be done with it. I dont even keep a spare but then my live stock only totals in the 1000s.. not 10s of thousands.
SeeFu
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i've had a vectra s1 fail on me twice in the last month. Both times after a dip in some citric acid would fix the problem. My problem now is the S1 is running hot, so hot that even w/ the A/C on overnight the tank is heating up, so i've turned it off and now rely on just the cor 20.
I figure since Ecotech is sending me a replacement S2, now might be a good time to swap it out to a Cor 20 and do some programming to it to fix my issues.
I figure since Ecotech is sending me a replacement S2, now might be a good time to swap it out to a Cor 20 and do some programming to it to fix my issues.
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
I am blunt. Stop buying cheap return pumps. Ecotech and now neptune. Neither specialize in making this stuff. Go abyzz or royal exclusiv and be done with it once and for all.
The money you have spent on pumps already could have done it right the first time. Ah reefing...
The money you have spent on pumps already could have done it right the first time. Ah reefing...
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
Do some searches. Ask around. Show me all the complaints from red dragon pump owners. They just don't exist in the quantity that vortech has. For every one you can find you will find 10 or more vortech. Seriously. A red dragon is designed to run 10 years non stop unlike a cor20 which looks like a toy.
SeeFu
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i bet i'll be that 1 that has it fail. also its likely the vortech fails more because they sell more pumps. in the end I don't mind running 2 mediocre pumps. I don't have the luxuary of a house sitter, so i'll always need a backup.
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
ok. How about this. Why does tunze, red dragon, etc.. come with longer warranty? Why do the ones you mention come with only a single year warranty? It should be obvious why. They don't stand behind their gear for more then a year. Others go 2 to 5 year warranty.
92Miata
Valuable Member
There are plenty of examples of these pumps failing. And there are probably 100 times as many vortechs sold as red dragons, so of course there are more reports.
More on topic - I'd be very surprised if a pump sitting off in your sump for a year would actually start when the other one failed. I'd expect there to be a whole bunch of crap encrusted on the inside.
92Miata
Valuable Member
Because theyre selling a concierge service and there's so much profit margin on the pumps that it really doesn't matter if they need to replace them.
Same reason some high end cars have long warranties despite being super unreliable.
fcmatt
Well-Known Member
if the discussion is a plan to always make sure a return is running the quality of what you buy has to be considered. I thought I was on topic.
But anyway... i learned the hard way years ago. 4 vortech power heads later with only a single 1 still working compared to tunze all still working is a perfect example. You get what you pay for when it comes to certain parts and if you plan to be in the hobby for a decade or more. Certain companies make quality. Others make toys that are "fun" and neato.
I will step away from this thread now.
But anyway... i learned the hard way years ago. 4 vortech power heads later with only a single 1 still working compared to tunze all still working is a perfect example. You get what you pay for when it comes to certain parts and if you plan to be in the hobby for a decade or more. Certain companies make quality. Others make toys that are "fun" and neato.
I will step away from this thread now.
92Miata
Valuable Member
So your entire argument that people need to spend a ton of money is based on vortechs - a pump know to have a ton of maintenance needs -
- that are very expensive - failing on you.
I've got 20 year old maxijets still running. Your argument is nonsense.
