dual return pumps

[BackToTheReef]

Why not just run two return pumps all the time? Then if one dies you still have the other and it avoids all the complexity of controller, swapping, etc.

I think that is how I am going to set up my tank.

 

[SeeFu]

this threads kind of gotten off topic. in the end here's what i was interested in.

2 return pumps, is it better to have both running at a slower speed or have 1 running at all times and then if that one fails apex switches over to the other pump.

 

[SeeFu]

Why not just run two return pumps all the time? Then if one dies you still have the other and it avoids all the complexity of controller, swapping, etc.

I think that is how I am going to set up my tank.

that's what i'm doing now.

now there is the benefit of if you run 2 pumps together, when one pump fails, you know. the tank starts gurgling water and you just now. if apex were to switch between the two pumps, i woudln't know till i checked my phone.

 

[BackToTheReef]

this threads kind of gotten off topic. in the end here's what i was interested in.

2 return pumps, is it better to have both running at a slower speed or have 1 running at all times and then if that one fails apex switches over to the other pump.

My thought is if I want 5x flow I am going to shoot for two to run at 2.5x flow 24-7. Feel free to insert you preferred xflow.

 

[MJ in Boise]

Mag pumps are cheap. They also run for decades. Hondas are also cheap and run for decades. Dont need a $5000 pump to be reliable.

Redundancy is great. Do it.

 

[fcmatt]

Last post. Lol. Why u folks mention cars is so odd.

So your entire argument that people need to spend a ton of money is based on vortechs - a pump know to have a ton of maintenance needs -
- that are very expensive - failing on you.


I've got 20 year old maxijets still running. Your argument is nonsense.

Since you replied I am basing my thoughts on buying all sorts of reefing gear over the last 20 years. All different stuff. Quality pays for itself time and time again. The op is buying 300 plus dollar return pumps x 2, a controller, etc... yet somehow buying a 800 dollar return is expensive for superior reliability? Ok... whatever. I thought he was serious about making sure a return is always running. He had a big budget. Most people don't know how good some stuff is because they keep repeatedly replacing lesser gear every few years. That ain't for me.

 

[SeeFu]

Last post. Lol. Why u folks mention cars is so odd.



Since you replied I am basing my thoughts on buying all sorts of reefing gear over the last 20 years. All different stuff. Quality pays for itself time and time again. The op is buying 300 plus dollar return pumps x 2, a controller, etc... yet somehow buying a 800 dollar return is expensive for superior reliability? Ok... whatever. I thought he was serious about making sure a return is always running. He had a big budget. Most people don't know how good some stuff is because they keep repeatedly replacing lesser gear every few years. That ain't for me.

i've already got an apex and 2 return pumps. so what we're talking about here is replacing a failed pump w/ anoterh $300 pump or selling both pumps for whatever i get and purchasing 2 $800 pumps.

 

[BackToTheReef]

Mag pumps are cheap. They also run for decades. Hondas are also cheap and run for decades. Dont need a $5000 pump to be reliable.

Redundancy is great. Do it.

I think mag drives were what I had on my tank(s) back in the day. We for sure used them at the LFS I had worked at and they ran and ran and ran. The only thing we had to do was replaced the odd impeller or two.

 

[SeeFu]

no matter what, i need to run 2 return pumps.

1) i'm away from the tank for long periods of time
2) there are times where I just can't get to it.

so running 2 seperate million dollar pumps is out of the question. i was just curious about running two pump together at 1/2 power or alternating between the 2 when one dies.

 

[92Miata]

no matter what, i need to run 2 return pumps.

1) i'm away from the tank for long periods of time
2) there are times where I just can't get to it.

so running 2 seperate million dollar pumps is out of the question. i was just curious about running two pump together at 1/2 power or alternating between the 2 when one dies.

Run one at 25% and the other at 75%. That way the second one will be running cooler and have less precipitation, and they won't be prone to failing/gumming up at the same time.

Set the Apex to turn the 75% on off if you see any significant increase or decrease in power.

 

[SeeFu]

so there's been a lot of knocking on ecotech and their pumps here. I'm in no way complaining about their pump. **** happens. what's more important to me especially in a small niche industry like this is customer service and they have completely stepped up. the pump is out of warranty and they are still sending me a new replacement. the replacement is also an upgrade from teh S1 to S2.

To date any time i've had an issue w/ ecotech marine or their sister company Aqua Illumination, they have always taken care of me fantastically.

 

[schuby]

I run two Cor-20 pumps at the same time for redundancy and flow-rate (fully capable to run Triton method but tank is too young). Each pump goes back to DT with its own plumbing. One goes through my chiller. I've had a pump controller fail. Ran on one until I got a replacement. No big deal and didn't cause any panic.

The controller failed on pump that goes through chiller. I just swapped controllers and left other pump off. There's more redundancy having two pumps than just the pumps themselves such as controllers, power-supplies, and cables.

Since I put lots of unions in my plumbing and ball valves on my return lines, I can completely remove either pump for a period of time and not affect the other pumps flow rate or my DT water-level.

 

[ichthyoid]

this threads kind of gotten off topic. in the end here's what i was interested in.

2 return pumps, is it better to have both running at a slower speed or have 1 running at all times and then if that one fails apex switches over to the other pump.

That scenario is an invitation for something to colonize the pump which is not running. To me, it would defeat the purpose.

The point is having redundancy.

Why not just run both, even at half speed if you want to?

 

[K7BMG]

Do some searches. Ask around. Show me all the complaints from red dragon pump owners. They just don't exist in the quantity that vortech has. For every one you can find you will find 10 or more vortech. Seriously. A red dragon is designed to run 10 years non stop unlike a cor20 which looks like a toy.

I have to disagree with you to a point.
You talking complaints based on volume.
How many own a Red dragon vs the Vortec?
No I don't know the figures but if its 2 to 1 or greater you will hear more complaints by volume.
If you want factual numbers the manufacturer needs to put out the numbers of what they have sold say over 5 years and what they have repaird or replaced this many.

However that will never happen, and if it did I would not gather it would be truthful.

 

[dbowman5]

when you have the choice of running controllable AC or DC pumps; two pumps at 50% or one at 100% , and
if 50% of one is sufficient to carry your tank for awhile or you have the ability to ramp them up and down remotely, Please put me down for two. a motor running below capacity will be more efficient and run longer than one running all out.
if your choice is one large pump at 100% of desired flow or two small pumps providing 50% of the desired flow apiece it would be a toss up.

if you have to valve them manually to 50%, you have the problem of added stress on the pumps for less flow. i would go for 1 pump not valved with the rest of the flow provided by power heads.
The point then is to have a spare on the shelf if possible whether you use one or two.

 

[K7BMG]

Wow I see no need for such heat here.

The issue I have with running two pumps at half speed is, if a voltage spike or power outage occurs or whatever, could reset the controller and run both at full speed, thus overrunning your drains.

Then you have some real problems.
#1 a flood.
#2 running the pumps dry.
#3 Not having a replacement on the shelf.

I find it interesting that all the pump threads I have ever read, so far I have never known anyone to address this potential issue.
The limiting factor of the systems are the drains.
Most tanks do not have an emergency drain, so this is even a larger issue for thoes aquariums and owners. I belong to the club without an emergency drain.

 

[SeeFu]

That scenario is an invitation for something to colonize the pump which is not running. To me, it would defeat the purpose.

The point is having redundancy.

Why not just run both, even at half speed if you want to?

that's the question i'm asking. is it a viable option to run 1 and then switch when apex notices an issue.

 

[schuby]

My overflow is a bean-animal type with three 1.5" drains. It could easily handle both return pumps at 100%. I run each pump around 50% and a single, throttled drain handles the overflow. The other two drains, a backup and emergency, are not throttled.

 

[Mikeltee]

You don't need a backup pump in your tank. I am 11 years in on my first thermometer and just replaced my original cheap eheim pump a few months ago with a cor15 just because I am a control freak and plan to utilize it running 2 stages with a UV. I never even cleaned the eheim. Its not a bad idea to have a spare in the closet as I always kept a spare return and thermometer. Your tank isn't going to crash if your return is down a day or 3. If it does, I assure the return was not the issue.

 

[K7BMG]

that's the question i'm asking. is it a viable option to run 1 and then switch when apex notices an issue.

Yes thats possible.
The issue is the second pump sitting around waiting to run could get clogged up and not start.
This was mentioned earlier
You would need to incorporate check valves so you prevent backflow in this plumbing situation.