E5 led/T5 lighting

[luke33]

do you people think it's worth it? Just do the math
it would take 2 1/2 - 3 years to pay off as oppose to using regular T5 bulbs. (one 24" T5 is $20, the E5 is $50).

this is just my opinion.
I think we need to think a little before buying these E5. will you be using T5 for the next 2+ yrs or not .
if you don't plan on using T5 light for more than 2-3 years then I would just stick with the regular T5 bulb.

For my purposes yes. I have ran t5's for 6 yrs, mh's for 2yrs and led for 5+ yrs. I switched back to t5 about a year ago and will not likely change again. My issue is I love the blue led pop for lps and softies, but hate having led's on the side of my ati fixture. So adding two blue pop's in dusk to dawn was a no brainer. Much cleaner look........but agreed it completely defeats the purpose to replace all your t5's.

 

[Wiinberg]

Until they release some specifications on the LED's, i can't take it serious. But my initial thought says that these tubes will have significantly less punch than ordinary T5 tubes.

 

[luke33]

The par tests I did tell otherwise on par

 

[ChrisAndJulie2012]

Good bad? what did you get for your numbers? just curious cause I just ordered two of their blue pop lights.

 

[jedimasterben]

Ok thank you!

If you remove the splash shield (just remember to epoxy or clamp down the PCB to the heatsink) then you will get shimmer.

 

[Euroquatics]

After seeing that the PCB is thin FR4, which is an insulator and not a conductor like you would see from an aluminum or copper MCPCB, has no thermal paste or epoxy between it and the heatsink, and isn't actually physically attached to the heatsink, I think 8 years is a pipe dream, especially since the LED brand isn't known. They aren't pushing a lot of power into the LEDs (and therefore not making loads of heat), but if the heat has nowhere to go, then the LEDs will simply continue to heat up, reducing their output and longevity.

The heat does get out fine and the LEDs are operated within their acceptable thermal range. While the report you saw was well done, it does ignore the fact that you don't "need" to put LEDs an aluminum PCB and take more involved measures to manage their heat well. It's an application by application thing and is based on the power you drive them at and the level of temp they hit while in operation. But, there are no pipe dreams here. We clearly outline the decay of the LED over time and they will drop to the ~85% level (where T5s are considered bad) at about 8 years. Could we extend them with different choices, sure... but it would drive up the costs and that seems like money waisted (for us and our customer) based on how technology advances. It's always a balance!

 

[Euroquatics]

If you remove the splash shield (just remember to epoxy or clamp down the PCB to the heatsink) then you will get shimmer.

Actually you wont... The LEDs are alined such that they wont give a point source shimmer. You'll also be exposing the LED phosphor to direct moisture and it will degrade with contact.

E5 lamps are designed to replicate and replace T5 lamps in their defused look.

 

[joeyhatch11]

The par tests I did tell otherwise on par

Would like to hear more on this as well. As i've just added 2 Blue Pop myself.

What fixture are you running? How many bulbs? Whst par meter are you using to measure?

Also funny thst i didnt see Euroquatics release any par comparison numbers either. They just mentioned they are equal to T5 output but using less power of course.

 

[Euroquatics]

Until they release some specifications on the LED's, i can't take it serious. But my initial thought says that these tubes will have significantly less punch than ordinary T5 tubes.

I really hope this dosed't come off as argumentative... but, i'm not sure what specs you're asking for that matter beyond what we've provided...

1) We've declared the wattage of the lamp - factual data (shown with wattage monitoring)
2) We've shown the spectrum - factual data (proven by scientific measurement)
3) PAR values are in process (however that data is going to be subjective and dependent on how you compare them as T5 PAR values fluctuate greatly based on lamp life, reflector/fixture, temp and a number of other factors that make benchmarking near impossible)
4) The product has a 3 year warranty backed by a company that's been in business for 30+ years and is a leader in the science of lighting and has a reputation for being a leader in lighting technology!

5) The LED max "potential" wattage (1W, 3W, 5W) isn't relevant

As we've said all along, some (turns out many users) will like the lamps and understand the benefits and other will choose to stick with T5 based on personal preference, outdated LED info/beliefs, past poor LED experience, or whatever. This is a new approach to LED lighting using custom phosphors and applications, it's the next step for our industry. But one thing is for sure... people can't take it anyway but seriously! It's real, it's here and people are loving the results!

 

[Euroquatics]

...
Also funny thst i didnt see Euroquatics release any par comparison numbers either. They just mentioned they are equal to T5 output but using less power of course.

We're working on it, however, T5 PAR values are like hitting a moving target! They drop quickly over the 0-12 month life span of the T5, and also vary greatly depending on the fixture/reflector used. So a fixed/hard "PAR" value is a subjective thing in that way.

T5 lamp manufactures don't really post PAR values for that reason and if they do it's a lot like other PAR values posted in the industry by manufactures, in ideal or completely unrealistic conditions (12" - 24" from the fixture in open air... :/ )

 

[Big E]

Just to be clear when you switch out an actinic bulb for a E5 blue pop this isn't an apple to apple change. Same goes for a blue+ bulb. You may see a pop/ change with your eyes but the corals are getting a whole different spectrum than they were before, which may be good or bad.

In other words a blue pop isn't going to be a replacement for a blue+ or an actinic bulb.
You're changing the lighting over your tank to a totally different spectrum.

For strictly pop to your eyes you should really compare it to a blue reefbrite or any other strip of blue 450 leds. They are basically the same spectrum wise.

 

[Big E]

3) PAR values are in process (however that data is going to be subjective and dependent on how you compare them as T5 PAR values fluctuate greatly based on lamp life, reflector/fixture, temp and a number of other factors that make benchmarking near impossible)

This is pychobabble, just post your par values and be done with it.

There are many par readings of T5 bulbs all over the web...........no need for you to try and show us any timed data of T5 par values. Reefers are more than capable of doing that on their own.

 

[Euroquatics]

This is pychobabble, just post your par values and be done with it.

My comments are 100% valid and true! There is not one part that is "psychobabble"...

...no need for you to try and show us any timed data of T5 par values. Reefers are more than capable of doing that on their own.

When you look at what some people comment on forums and FB, no, they cannot (or do not) do that on their own... They use quick data without any validation or analysis whet so ever!

As stated data is forthcoming (with the appropriate disclaimers, descriptions, and info to encourage proper interpretation...)

And to the post before that... Blue Pop is very close to Blue+ (its' not a "totally different spectrum"). That's the kind of analysis/posting that I'm talking about. Blue+ is a bit wider but does not give the same "pop" as the Blue Pop does (proven in test/practice). And we don't claim it's a replacement for actinic lamps.

If you do the same comparison of our other full-spectrum lamps to their T5 counter parts you'll see a FAR superior spectrum in terms of completeness (big plus for coral) and without large spikes in the less used green region (if you care about how your coral use light) that cause artificially high PAR values on a meter.

Again, all this to say we're doing actual science here at Gavita/Euroquatics, not just trying to get big numbers for the sake of marketing or to look better than we actually are...

I'll let this go for now as I'm not trying to convince you to use E5s. If you aren't interested, that's fine, everyone has their own approach and the great thing is that there are countless stories of success under LED, MH, T5 and soon E5... People like what they like and that's fine with us!

Thanks everyone! As always, we'll post more data as it's processed.

~Euroquatics

 

[Big E]

I think you're missing my point..........all I'm doing is telling people if they swap out a blue+ or an actinic with a blue pop bulb it's not a one for one replacement. I see posts in this thread that they are doing that. The comments and posting of the charts is not directed at you.

Your blue pop is a replacement for a 450 led strip not a bulb that has a wider spectrum.

As far as your par numbers go of each bulb or any of your bulbs in combinations.......just post them. I don't need & probably others don't need you to draw huge drawn out compariasons to T5's. It's that simple.

I'm not against your bulbs, as a matter of fact I like them and the concept, but I'll wait for them to prove they work before I buy any.

 

[Euroquatics]

We do not post data without educating people on how it was taken/measured and how to use it. Anything less is unethical.

 

[aaron23]

I'd like to see more reefers use the bulbs and compare the par values before I dive in Bc I this hobby you don't change what works and not drastically

 

[Euroquatics]

There are MANY!

And the change is not that drastic in terms of output levels even though spectrums are more stable and full. The goal was to have a something on the level of T5 with the benefits of LED.

 

[ifarmer]

man, lots of sayings.
cant seem to find much video youtube about these light out there (there is one marinedepot video which does not say much about these E5 led tube).

 

[gus6464]

A modern quality T5HO bulb like ATI has an output life with a programmed start ballast that is way past what we keep them on our tanks before replacing. Spectrum shift will occur before the bulb output is degraded to the point where it's useless and even that is unlikely to happen as 90% of reefers replace bulbs once a year. Running a bulb for 8 hours a day only yields <3000 hours of use in a year. The bulb output decay at 3000 hours is basically non-existant with a programmed start ballast. At 5000 hours based on a 12-hour cycle a bulb will have 95% lumen output. The bulb will be in the trash before it hits 5000 hours in our uses.

Bulb temp - T5 bulbs are most efficient when the ambient temp surrounding the bulb is 35C. If you run a fixture without the splash guard odds are you will not need much cooling as a climate controlled environment will be enough. This has been shown by the BRS testing where they took the splashguard off a sunpower and only had to run the fans at 3V to get max output out of the bulbs. If you run splashguard then fan output had to be upped to 6-9V to keep it cool enough for max efficiency. All this to say that most modern fixtures are very adept at cooling a T5 bulb to their greatest efficiency. Even if one uses a cheaper fixture with no cooling, all they have to do is not use a splash guard and this will get the ambient temp surrounding the bulb down enough to proper levels in a climate controlled room.

All these runarounds in regards to PAR are quite silly. So you get a visible fluorescence pop on your corals with these bulbs. Well guess what? I can do the exact same thing with a roll of SMD5630 and a 12V wall wart at a fraction of the price. Will they look super bright to my eyes? For sure. Will it push out enough PAR for me to replace a Blue+? Not even close.

 

[Euroquatics]

man, lots of sayings.
cant seem to find much video youtube about these light out there (there is one marinedepot video which does not say much about these E5 led tube).

We have a color mixing video on our FB page.