Eco live rock vs. natural live rock

[Cleo642]

Hi Again,
d2mini, there is one point that you make that must originate from assumption. Although Richard at Tampa Bay is doing an amazing job with our ReefRock2.1 and turning it into what will soon be the best live rock the industry has seen in many years it is not necessarily about the Gulf critters it will attract and how fast it grows. We are getting the same results in Fiji with amazing coralline coverage in just 3 - 4 months and even coral settlements. Where the magic is in the relationship between TBS and WSI is the location.
As I pointed out in my earlier post it would do no good the grow this amazing rock here ion Fiji (even though we have over 100,000 Kgs (that's 220,000 Lbs +) in the water now) and then ship it by boat. In fact, that would be a sin.
when Richard contacted me about sending his some of my Pukani rock for grow out I also suggested that he try my handmade Reef Rock. he just reported to me that is had amazingly fast grow time and was very excited.
this is a big win for the hobby because I can ship containers by sea of that product right off the production line to Richard really cost effectively and he can grow it in the gulf bring the best rock to you for cheaper than I can from Fiji using domestic air freight rather that expensive international freight cost.
This is what I call a win/win/win ..... TBS/WSI/YOU
we were going to announce this ummm marriage pretty soon but it looks like the cat is out of the bag already.
"Made in Fiji - Grown in the USA"
I am very excited about this partnership and looking forward to your comments about this rock when it finally starts hitting the market.
good reefing to you all. hope to see you at MACNA
We are giving another Fiji trip away this year.
Walt

My apologies with the silly question I had asked earlier. The confusion came because Dr. Foster and Smith's liveaquaria.com now offer only manmade eco rock and somehow I just had confused your name with it.
I just watching your MACNA video on YouTube. I have to say you have led an amazing, adventurous life.

 

[reefjunkie88]

I have been out of this hobby for while now, and plan on getting back into it in the next few years when things settle back down for me and I am not traveling around alot. I do agree with gooch. With the way things are going with conservation of the oceans and reefs, etc. I believe it would be better to use man made rock, versus harvesting more from the ocean. People may think it is better to use the "live rock" from the ocean as it is "alive" or seeded. When in fact you can seed,cure, and make manmade rock into live rock. Will it possible take longer? Sure, but from a sustainable standpoint in the long run it would be better. It seems people to often are in to big of a hurry to get their tanks up running, cycled as fast as possible to stock it as fast as possible. I say take your time, enjoy it, make it a work of art and make it the best environment possible for the fish and corals you plan on introducing.

I hope in the future to see more vendors who actually grow out their coral, frag it and sell it vs. Just buying from a supplier that harvested it from an ocean somewhere, and sent it out to make their money. Same for fish, if we can find a way to breed them in captivity to supply our hobby vs taking them from the oceans,hoping they'll survive and selling them.

The above may not be completely plausible as of now but hopefully its something that can be worked upto. With the amount of overfishing, illegal poaching, etc. Reefs around the world and fish populations are being greatly affected or dying off. While there are mamy conservation projects gping on aroumd the world, involving helping to re-establish reefs and the growing out of coral etc. Prosecution of poachers and illegal fishing, anything business wise involving the oceans should probably be more conscious of how their businesses effect the ocean or the life within it. As the oceans are basically what sustains all life. Anyways just my opinion.

I have heard about a few businesses that do make their own rock and seed it in different places around the world in the ocean. I cant remember if it was on this forum or another forum. Anyone know what companies do this?

 

[Cleo642]

I have been out of this hobby for while now, and plan on getting back into it in the next few years when things settle back down for me and I am not traveling around alot. I do agree with gooch. With the way things are going with conservation of the oceans and reefs, etc. I believe it would be better to use man made rock, versus harvesting more from the ocean. People may think it is better to use the "live rock" from the ocean as it is "alive" or seeded. When in fact you can seed,cure, and make manmade rock into live rock. Will it possible take longer? Sure, but from a sustainable standpoint in the long run it would be better. It seems people to often are in to big of a hurry to get their tanks up running, cycled as fast as possible to stock it as fast as possible. I say take your time, enjoy it, make it a work of art and make it the best environment possible for the fish and corals you plan on introducing.

I hope in the future to see more vendors who actually grow out their coral, frag it and sell it vs. Just buying from a supplier that harvested it from an ocean somewhere, and sent it out to make their money. Same for fish, if we can find a way to breed them in captivity to supply our hobby vs taking them from the oceans,hoping they'll survive and selling them.

The above may not be completely plausible as of now but hopefully its something that can be worked upto. With the amount of overfishing, illegal poaching, etc. Reefs around the world and fish populations are being greatly affected or dying off. While there are mamy conservation projects gping on aroumd the world, involving helping to re-establish reefs and the growing out of coral etc. Prosecution of poachers and illegal fishing, anything business wise involving the oceans should probably be more conscious of how their businesses effect the ocean or the life within it. As the oceans are basically what sustains all life. Anyways just my opinion.

I have heard about a few businesses that do make their own rock and seed it in different places around the world in the ocean. I cant remember if it was on this forum or another forum. Anyone know what companies do this?

Tamp bay saltwater from a responder, d2mini. They take dry rock or manmade rock like Walt Smith's real reef rock, and throw it into the water off the coast of Florida. Then they harvest it when it matures.
I think I will go with half dry/manmade rock and half live rock or the rock Tampa Bay sells. But all manmade/eco rock costs more.

 

[reefjunkie88]

Cleo642, thanks. I wish i would have saved the thread i saw it on but i believe there were some in the carribean and other places as well that cure manmade rock in the ocean too. I need to find that thread! Would be a great thing to do in helping re-establishing damaged or disappearing reefs.

I kmow the eco, or manmade costs more. However, i feel if more companies and the larger retailers get into making the manmade rocks and even placing them in the ocean to cure and become live rock i believe the pricing will start to come down. We as consumers need to just create that demand. I really lile gooches idea with having more manmade rock out of ceramic by various companies and those eco rock companies who already make rock. Shipping cost would decrease significantly or at least way more rock per pound could be shipped due to the lightness of it compared to other live rock. Ceramic being very porous i believe would also create a great biological filtration once established or turned into "live" rock once its seeded so to speak.

 

[hejjo]

Not sure how close you are to Mchenry Illinois but I got this bad boy for sale. In excellent condition

 

[Cleo642]

Not sure how close you are to Mchenry Illinois but I got this bad boy for sale. In excellent condition

Is that a Hamilton Cebu fixture?
I am not close to Illinois. I also not ready to buy right now buy it looks nice.

 

[Daytonareefing]

The problem with tampa bay saltwater is you have to buy the package. I just want liverock. At least that's how the website reads. What's funny is are lfs put the eco rock in the same tank as the fiji rock so you get the pests anyway if that's why people what the eco stuff. I prefer liverock off the reef but that's just me.

 

[Cleo642]

The problem with tampa bay saltwater is you have to buy the package. I just want liverock. At least that's how the website reads. What's funny is are lfs put the eco rock in the same tank as the fiji rock so you get the pests anyway if that's why people what the eco stuff. I prefer liverock off the reef but that's just me.

You can buy the rock separate, it's so much a pound. I don't remember how much it was. Plus the eco rock from Tampa Bay or any where is way higher.
But I saw a tip on Dr. Foster and Smith's on how to get rid of pests on live rock, so matter which one I decide to chose I should be ok.

 

[Cleo642]

The problem with tampa bay saltwater is you have to buy the package. I just want liverock. At least that's how the website reads. What's funny is are lfs put the eco rock in the same tank as the fiji rock so you get the pests anyway if that's why people what the eco stuff. I prefer liverock off the reef but that's just me.

 

[Daytonareefing]

I like to run a smaller skimmer when I'm curing my live rock too.

 

[Cleo642]

I like to run a smaller skimmer when I'm curing my live rock too.

The part I was jump looking was just getting rid of the past. I not like any mantis shrimp sneaking into my aquarium. Those things are nightmares that destroy everything in your tank and they are ugly. I don't understand why some people are so fascinated with them.

 

[Daytonareefing]

I don't know. I had a 6" red reef lobster for a couple years I really liked that little guy. I wish I still had him.

 

[Cleo642]

 

[reefjunkie88]

Lol, awesome video, the commentary is what makes this video.. on a serious note arent mantis shrimp also known to potentially crack or break tanks?

 

[d2mini]

To clear some things....

1) you can buy just the live rock. Look at the price list, not The Package web page. I believe it's $5/lb. Cheap compared to the junk at your LFS.
You can also buy sand, critters, gorgonians... Whatever u want. If you have questions, just send him an email.

2) don't succumb to the mantis fear mongering. First, the ones from Florida are smashers, not spearers. Second, they don't destroy anything. They are opportunistic feeders and scavengers. The first thing they will do is go after leftover food. Then they might go after snails or hermits but that's pretty much it. I've had countless over the years and it's never a big deal. As time goes by they get brave and you will see them come out. They are curious creatures and can be baited with food. I have a pair of long stainless forceps I got off eBay years ago. I lower those into thank near the mantis and wait. With some patience he will come out and play with the shiny new toy. When he is out and in between the open forceps I snap them closed and pull him out. Then give away or sell to a local reefer or LFS. They are really cool creatures and quite a bit misunderstood in this hobby. Please don't continue spreading the hate. I even had one punch my thumb once. Almost pee'd my pants but no damage. Lol
And no, they won't break your tank!

Now gorilla crabs on the other hand...

 

[Cleo642]

To clear some things....

1) you can buy just the live rock. Look at the price list, not The Package web page. I believe it's $5/lb. Cheap compared to the junk at your LFS.
You can also buy sand, critters, gorgonians... Whatever u want. If you have questions, just send him an email.

2) don't succumb to the mantis fear mongering. First, the ones from Florida are smashers, not spearers. Second, they don't destroy anything. They are opportunistic feeders and scavengers. The first thing they will do is go after leftover food. Then they might go after snails or hermits but that's pretty much it. I've had countless over the years and it's never a big deal. As time goes by they get brave and you will see them come out. They are curious creatures and can be baited with food. I have a pair of long stainless forceps I got off eBay years ago. I lower those into thank near the mantis and wait. With some patience he will come out and play with the shiny new toy. When he is out and in between the open forceps I snap them closed and pull him out. Then give away or sell to a local reefer or LFS. They are really cool creatures and quite a bit misunderstood in this hobby. Please don't continue spreading the hate. I even had one punch my thumb once. Almost pee'd my pants but no damage. Lol
And no, they won't break your tank!

Now gorilla crabs on the other hand...

Did you watch the video? Mantis shrimp are little psycho jerks.lol

 

[d2mini]

Did you watch the video? Mantis shrimp are little psycho jerks.lol

Lol yes it's an old vid. Seen it many times.
Interesting little creatures just trying to make their way.

 

[Cleo642]

I have several boxes of several different brands of eco rocks and so far I cannot say I am impressed with any of them. At least from what I have seen at best its painted purple rock which does nothing but close up all the pores in the rock where all the goodies live. So for me and my future huge build (1200g) it will be a pallet of marco type rock and then several boxes of the real stuff to seed it all.

Did you ever start that 1200 gallon tank? Huge build right there.

 

[Cleo642]

I was browsing the Internet, and I came across another place that seems to offer quality live rock. It's calls Live Rock n Reef. The prices are higher in some cases but looks nice from what I see on there. They have some you tube videos posted showing the rock. Here are a few screenshots.

 

[Angeleyes reefraf]

It's nothing like what it would like like off the coast of Tampa!
Walt's now shipping rock to Tampa Bay Saltwater. Check out the other thread to see what it looks like after just two months.

What thread?