Ecotech radion g5 knock off found!

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

U don't think all the other countries my company sells airplanes to dose t reverse engineer them? You don't think they don't buy 1 extra just to disassemble the thing in a hanger somewhere?! Lol
We are all people. People will do what people have been doing forever.
If they can do something for cheaper. Themselves...well. they're gonna.
Lol.
I myself.like my tunze wavebox and 8 bulb t5 tek grow light. Lol.

What's up with these knockoffs?! Anyone tried 1 yet?
-d

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

The higher end stuff is slowly pricing themselves out. That has nothing to do with the cheaper stuff. Ecotech doesn't care what the cheap stuff is priced at. They know their costs and their margins. They price according to that. That is how any successful business runs.

If the majority of people buy knockoffs, there will be no one to knock off at some point. Plenty of cheap options out there already from companies that actually took some time to create something instead of just steal it.

Peace

although i generally agree with you on many of the things you say, I would ask the harder question...if companies are able to leverage the same factories for the same components and build nearly identical knock offs for a significant fraction of the price..does this not show that the 'original company' is not doing a bit of over charging just simply based upon their brand? Yes..i get it. and yes, a company should be able to charge what the market can bear. Yes intellectual property theft is bad. But if a company can literally pay the supplier a similar fee for identical components and sell a nearly identical light for lets say half the price and still make a profit...is there not something wrong with this picture from the original company?

 

[PhilMStudy]

believing businesses will set prices and margins fairly is the reason we are in an inflationary period right now. Nearly every company had a record year last year. Sure supply chain was an issue and labor costs are going up, but the companies don't have to raise the prices at the same rate. If they are already profitable and costs are going up 10%, do they need to raise prices 10% to justify the same margin percentage?

If they have investors, yes

 

[PhilMStudy]

This really has me laughing. If you follow this logic with everything you buy it must be tough. Curious which truck you think it is ethically and morally ok for me to buy? I mean they all are pretty much the same and any new advance is copied as soon as legally viable so i just dont know which i can buy and not go to hell?

You think a Dodge Ram, Chevy Silverado and Tundra all look similar?

 

[PhilMStudy]

although i generally agree with you on many of the things you say, I would ask the harder question...if companies are able to leverage the same factories for the same components and build nearly identical knock offs for a significant fraction of the price..does this not show that the 'original company' is not doing a bit of over charging just simply based upon their brand? Yes..i get it. and yes, a company should be able to charge what the market can bear. Yes intellectual property theft is bad. But if a company can literally pay the supplier a similar fee for identical components and sell a nearly identical light for lets say half the price and still make a profit...is there not something wrong with this picture from the original company?

Warranties, research and development, etc… all of those things cost money too.

ripping off a design and offering lesser quality isn’t really “doing the same thing”

theyre offering less channels, less voltage, and likely less customer support.

 

[moz71]

When you take someone else's intellectual design and flat out copy it, that's unethical and immoral in every way. I don't care about the legality. Lots of things are legal but unethical.

Company: I mean we made it look exactly like a duck, it sits like a duck, it even walks like a duck but the quack is 5% quieter and in a different language...

Consumer: Oh! That's okay

Your so way off. “Flat out copy it” diff channels different volts, different Operating, etc may look like a duck but does NOT quack like one or walk like one etc”. Any consumer with half a brain knows this and is smart enough to know difference and what they are buying hence this thread

 

[WVNed]

although i generally agree with you on many of the things you say, I would ask the harder question...if companies are able to leverage the same factories for the same components and build nearly identical knock offs for a significant fraction of the price..does this not show that the 'original company' is not doing a bit of over charging just simply based upon their brand? Yes..i get it. and yes, a company should be able to charge what the market can bear. Yes intellectual property theft is bad. But if a company can literally pay the supplier a similar fee for identical components and sell a nearly identical light for lets say half the price and still make a profit...is there not something wrong with this picture from the original company?

You go to XYZ manufacturing in another country with some plans to have a geegaw made.
XYZ manufacturing tells you they can make the geegaws for $10 each after hiring and training people and buying the tooling to make them.
You have 10,000 made for $10 each

Meanwhile Wilbur shows up and asks If I want 10,000 geegaws made with these slight changes when you are done making theirs how much.
XYZ says we can make them for you for $1 plus materials. We already have the tooling paid for and trained workers to do it and the production lines set up.

Wilbur gets 10,000 geegaws for $4.50 that look and work almost just like yours.

Wilbur sells his for $9 and you sell yours for $14.50

You're price gouging.
Wilbur is loved by all.

 

[monkeyCmonkeyDo]

^^^lol
Shhhhh
My company just buys the other company

 

[flashsmith]

Yes, let's continue to support companies that provide absolutely nothing to the hobby. No innovation. No R&D. Very little, if any, support when you need it.

Rewarding thieves isn't on the top of my list personally. Just go get the Viparspectra Black Box and be done if you want "budget conscious" lights

So let me get this straight... Literally everyone in this hobby complains about costs. When a viable option comes along everybody still complains?? As a small business owner I welcome any product that can help me eat a steak once in awhile over hot dogs. I see no point in your point.. Once a patent expires all bets are off.

 

[rtparty]

So let me get this straight... Literally everyone in this hobby complains about costs. When a viable option comes along everybody still complains?? As a small business owner I welcome any product that can help me eat a steak once in awhile over hot dogs. I see no point in your point.. Once a patent expires all bets are off.

Again, there are dozens of options to already choose from that aren't high priced, premium products. Not hard to understand yet so many of you can't.

What patent expired for this knock off to come about? Which Kessil patent expired? And again, patents don't mean squat in China.

I know this is too hard for some to understand.

 

[rtparty]

although i generally agree with you on many of the things you say, I would ask the harder question...if companies are able to leverage the same factories for the same components and build nearly identical knock offs for a significant fraction of the price..does this not show that the 'original company' is not doing a bit of over charging just simply based upon their brand? Yes..i get it. and yes, a company should be able to charge what the market can bear. Yes intellectual property theft is bad. But if a company can literally pay the supplier a similar fee for identical components and sell a nearly identical light for lets say half the price and still make a profit...is there not something wrong with this picture from the original company?

Company A is US based and has to pay fair wages, proper working conditions, taxes, insurance, assembles products in the US, provides customer support, etc

Company B is China based, doesn't pay fair wages, doesn't provide proper working conditions, doesn't have any R&D costs, provides zero support, etc

But company A charges too much?? How dare they!

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Warranties, research and development, etc… all of those things cost money too.

ripping off a design and offering lesser quality isn’t really “doing the same thing”

theyre offering less channels, less voltage, and likely less customer support.

as i said..i agree that ripping off is bad.

You got to XYZ manufacturing in another country with some plans to have a geegaw made.
XYZ manufacturing tells you they can make the geegaws for $10 each after hiring and training people and buying the tooling to make them.
You have 10,000 made for $10 each

Meanwhile Wilbur shows up and asks If I want 10,000 geegaws made with these slight changes when you are done making theirs how much.
XYZ says we can make them for you for $1 plus materials. We already have the tooling paid for and trained workers to do it and the production lines set up.

Wilbur gets 10,000 geegaws for $4.50 that look and work almost just like yours.

Wilbur sells his for $9 and you sell yours for $14.50

You price gouging SOB

I do agree that IP theft is wrong. I agree that cheap knock offs is a problem. But this is the price you pay when you outsource your manufacturing and dont own the factory. The position you take could easily be transferred over to employees. I train you, spend 50,000 to train you for a skill set and you leave my company to a competitor and make them money. Should employees not allowed to transfer companies and use their accumulated skills?

This issue can 'easily' be resolved by companies owning their manufacturing. If you dont own it, the company themselves have a right to manufacture for other companies so that they can make money.

 

[rtparty]

Having more hobbyists for the sake of simply having more hobbyists isn't actually good for the hobby.

Been around long enough to watch these crazy growth spurts and they always end the same way. Lots of cheap, barely used equipment and people killing animals leaving a black eye on the hobby.

There are a ton of ways to do this hobby on the cheap already. Options from multiple manufacturers that aren't "premium" or overpriced.

Again, if the majority of reefers buy the knock offs, there won't be anything left to knock off at some point.

 

[BroccoliFarmer]

Having more hobbyists for the sake of simply having more hobbyists isn't actually good for the hobby.

Been around long enough to watch these crazy growth spurts and they always end the same way. Lots of cheap, barely used equipment and people killing animals leaving a black eye on the hobby.

There are a ton of ways to do this hobby on the cheap already. Options from multiple manufacturers that aren't "premium" or overpriced.

Again, if the majority of reefers buy the knock offs, there won't be anything left to knock off at some point.

@rtparty - I hope you dont think i am arguing with you. I generally agree with everything you are saying and am not trying to be argumentative (even though i ALWAYS come off that way). Very nuanced points I am trying to make here.

However, one thing I will point out that you pointed out that has an unexpected consequence. A lot of cheap knock offs come out and kill off the over priced competition but then these knock offs start upping their game and become the premium player themselves. Emulating and copying designs is a way that competitors generally enter a saturated market and make the market more efficient. Its a brutal reality of capitalism which over the course of many cycles means better products and lower prices over the long term. Think about hyunda in the car market. Back in the 90's, they were the biggest joke on the market and they copied a lot of things from the big boys..but now they are a more acceptable brand out there as they upped their game.

 

[Acros]

Having more hobbyists for the sake of simply having more hobbyists isn't actually good for the hobby.

Been around long enough to watch these crazy growth spurts and they always end the same way. Lots of cheap, barely used equipment and people killing animals leaving a black eye on the hobby.

There are a ton of ways to do this hobby on the cheap already. Options from multiple manufacturers that aren't "premium" or overpriced.

Again, if the majority of reefers buy the knock offs, there won't be anything left to knock off at some point.

This post borders on gatekeeping. The hobby is not exactly newcomer friendly. We have a lack of empathy problem. Newcomers often get conflicting information and get criticized no matter what way they choose. No way is fail proof anyway.

 

[Arego]

Yes, let's continue to support companies that provide absolutely nothing to the hobby. No innovation. No R&D. Very little, if any, support when you need it.

Rewarding thieves isn't on the top of my list personally. Just go get the Viparspectra Black Box and be done if you want "budget conscious" lights

So if its over priced and has a phone number to call it's ok? The research and development part is irrelevant to the matter as I'm sure you have products in your home from places who ripped off someone else who did the r&d.

Not trying to argue, just sayin

 

[rtparty]

So if its over priced and has a phone number to call it's ok? The research and development part is irrelevant to the matter as I'm sure you have products in your home from places who ripped off someone else who did the r&d.

Not trying to argue, just sayin

Over priced to who? You? Me? Bill and Jane?

If someone can't afford $950 for a light, don't buy that light.

I own zero Ecotech products. I sold all their stuff off a while back because they have zero QC these days. Doesn't mean I'm okay with a thief stealing their designs.

People can justify all this as much as they want. Theft is theft. Yes, some of the most popular products in the world were basically stolen but does that make it okay or right?

Anyway, I'm out of this thread. Too much time wasted already.

 

[Greg Gdowski]

Again, there are dozens of options to already choose from that aren't high priced, premium products. Not hard to understand yet so many of you can't.

What patent expired for this knock off to come about? Which Kessil patent expired? And again, patents don't mean squat in China.

I know this is too hard for some to understand.

A patent is only a piece of paper. It is up to the company to protect itself. You can't blame the consumer for buying something because it is cheaper. Just because it looks the same on the outside, doesn't mean its the same on the inside. Part of what Ecotech protects is the ability to wirelessly communicate with other products in their line of products. They have an active patent on this. That is indeed, what you are paying for.

I agree, it looks pretty similar. Ecotech could go after them if they thought it was worth it. I suspect they think people won't buy it because they want their entire Ecotech system to work in harmony together with their other products.

I've seen the same issue with John Deere parts. Buying those parts are a gamble by the consumer. I've rolled the dice with my JD many times, but I also expect those parts to fail at a much higher rate.

 

[rtparty]

@rtparty - I hope you dont think i am arguing with you. I generally agree with everything you are saying and am not trying to be argumentative (even though i ALWAYS come off that way). Very nuanced points I am trying to make here.

However, one thing I will point out that you pointed out that has an unexpected consequence. A lot of cheap knock offs come out and kill off the over priced competition but then these knock offs start upping their game and become the premium player themselves. Emulating and copying designs is a way that competitors generally enter a saturated market and make the market more efficient. Its a brutal reality of capitalism which over the course of many cycles means better products and lower prices over the long term. Think about hyunda in the car market. Back in the 90's, they were the biggest joke on the market and they copied a lot of things from the big boys..but now they are a more acceptable brand out there as they upped their game.

I'm always arguing with you

 

[Koh23]

For some time now, there isnt revolution in anything...

Rather evolution..... Minimal one, if i may say so...

Yes they look similar, yes they perform similar, but, again, its hard to find two things in same category which are not very similar, even identical....

And argue that things in this hobby are overpriced is pointless, they are, to the point that we dont have some "entry" or "low range" products, that are priced accordingly.... We have expensive, more expensive and crazy expensive, only so called knock offs offer reasonable price for product.

Many of.products simply break common sense rule with their price.....