Does Apex REALLY present a barrier to entry? What do they have that's unique (not easily replicable) by other vendors? Wave makers? Lights? An interface that is user friendly? I think Ecotech has a larger share than APEX (not including controllers obv) for all other components. It's hard to say as these are private companies who don't release quarterly earnings. Granted, APEX and Ecotech companies get pushed hard on the hobby sites, literature and forums. Now I'm not an ecotech fanboy necessarily, I love my MP40's and still am mixed on my Radions (I have a thread out there where I want to replace with Giesemann Spectra). What I do like is the non-centralized controller, one less failure chokepoint.
Ecotech taking on Neptune
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C. Eymann
2500 Club Member
Competition is a good thing, but can have downsides too, for one, I used a Reefkeeper on my old system because I had been using Neptune Aquacontrollers (pre apex) for many years and had tons of problems both on my own and clients controllers ESP with AC3pro, I wanted something different.
Love my RK, very sad to see them go under, but that's how competition in such a niche market is. I think there are a lot of loyal Ecotech customers out there that would possibly switch from their Apex to Ecotechs controller. Brand loyalty is a real thing.
Speaking of brand loyalty, when's Tunze going to get in the controller game?
I do like the idea of modular design instead of a central brain, that way if something goes wrong, it's only going to be one component vs being completely dead in the water so to speak.
Love my RK, very sad to see them go under, but that's how competition in such a niche market is. I think there are a lot of loyal Ecotech customers out there that would possibly switch from their Apex to Ecotechs controller. Brand loyalty is a real thing.
Speaking of brand loyalty, when's Tunze going to get in the controller game?
I do like the idea of modular design instead of a central brain, that way if something goes wrong, it's only going to be one component vs being completely dead in the water so to speak.
I still love my reefkeeper lite. It's simple and it just works. I've had a similar experience with ecotech products, (YMMV). I have yet to read about cases where and ecotech malfunction caused an entire system to crash unlike APEX. That's not necessarily APEX's fault, but it demonstrates a fundamental structural flaw imo. You're putting your entire trust in a single device and hoping it doesn't brick.
Your comparison doesn’t make sense to me. Both products fail can But Ecotech does not make the same category of equipment that Neptune does.
What happens when an Ecotech radion fails? You have no lighting. No crash.
What happens when an Ecotech Vortech fails? Slightly less flow. No crash.
It’s like saying you’ve heard of less people dying due to bike bells, compared to bike tires. They don’t exactly serve the same function...
(Also, can’t say I’ve heard of many stories of defective controllers causing a crash— most issues can arise due to bad user setup).
Honestly, Ecotech needs to have everything in place at launch and a bunch of how to videos. When I say everything, I want wireless controlled power strips. That will work in this Mobius thing.
I presently have Reeflink, Radions, vortex and vectra.. but I also have allot of other equipment that needs to get controlled as well. Don’t play proprietary BS games..
Mobius will be worthless if I can’t control my skimmer, ATO, waterchanges and so on..
I presently have Reeflink, Radions, vortex and vectra.. but I also have allot of other equipment that needs to get controlled as well. Don’t play proprietary BS games..
Mobius will be worthless if I can’t control my skimmer, ATO, waterchanges and so on..
I don't think you'll see a scheduled roll out date due to others that missed the mark. I suspect this is all about hyping up the product to get people interested.
So, when my light crashes I have no light, I still have flow I have a way to address it, I like other reefers have more than one source of light. I like other reefers have several flow pumps, if one fails I have other flow. I have a backup return pump in case my main fails.
What happens when that central APEX controller fails?
Apex keeps shutting down my entire system
Never had this issue. Everything that’s plugged into the eb832 is randomly shutting down. I updated it today, installed a wxm and pm2 today. That’s it. Temps are normal, no spills on anything electrical. The circuit the tank is on isn’t flashing my other devices in the same circuit when the apex...
www.reef2reef.com
Almost tank crash , check your equipment!
For tonight's update we cover how to crash your tank! The last few day I realized the my corals looked off. I've been neglecting to test my parameters so I figured my calcium was off since I have my alk on a doser. Sure enough my calcium was at 290. So I corrected the issue and prepared to do a...
www.reef2reef.com
Apex shut down then restarted itself several times in a row.
Be nice if Neptune would push this through fusion as an alert afterwards. Same thing happened to me last night, matter of fact I stayed up later then normal to also try to recreate the event.
www.reef2reef.com
Ecotech IS getting into the same category of equipment, they are building a controller app with smart devices instead of a centralized smart controller with dumb devices. It's a better design, you can build redundancy into it without thinking about it. A lot of what I'm saying is speculation on my part based on ecotech announcements and my own prognostication. Is it that much of a leap to assume that ecotech will release a probe suite and possibly automated testing, via acquisition or in house dev? What are the real gaps between the technologies and how long would it take ecotech to bridge that gap? It seems to me Ecotech has a shorter bridge to span than neptune assuming it was the other way around.
Hopefully the above makes sense ;-)
C. Eymann
2500 Club Member
Probably not relevant as this happened with a clients Neptune Aqua controller III pro, but this client was OCD and wanted everything to be run by the controller, 700 gallon reef
I pleaded with him to let me keep the the return pumps off the AC3, but nope! Well, one day that AC3 decided it wanted a firmware update and shut down everything. Also decided to do this at midnight.
I had to call the client, waking him up to let him know I needed to come over ASAP to deal with it.
Not cool
I pleaded with him to let me keep the the return pumps off the AC3, but nope! Well, one day that AC3 decided it wanted a firmware update and shut down everything. Also decided to do this at midnight.
I had to call the client, waking him up to let him know I needed to come over ASAP to deal with it.
Not cool
It speaks to stupid design methodology on the vendors part. All these reef systems are designed for single point catastrophic failure, it’s like nobody thinks about system design at all. Probably because there is no legal liability if the controller decides to kill everything or flood your house.
ca1ore
10K Club member
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A false equivalency ..... all mechanical or electronic equipment fails .... some is more critical to life support than others. Frankly if an apex going down crashes your tank, you’ve set it up foolishly. I’ve an apex with over 20 modules and if it died it’d be mighty inconvenient (mainly because it’d be a pita to reprogram another) but it wouldn’t crash the tank. Got 10 vortechs and 8 radions too .....
U
User1
Guest
Maybe you meant user error? You can use any controller, give it total control, and have a crash. Doesn't matter what controller you are using.
Looks like the PowerBar isnt toooo far away
Powerbar - EcoTech Marine
ecotechmarine.com
LOL good find man!!
@Tim at EcoTech I can’t tell if you guys are doing this intentionally or not haha. Builds hype for sure
U
User1
Guest
Too bad we can't add more likes than 1!!!
To second this, not that it is needed. As most know Neptune produces two pumps one of which is powered by their 1LInk (Cor 15) and the other its own power source (Cor 20). To piggy back on the set up foolishly nugget if someone powered the Cor 15's and Cor 20 by the energy bar (1 Link and Outlet) and something happens causing it to trip, all pumps would be in a failed state. Tank now is at risk of crashing.
Real life - this is my story. Accident in the neighbourhood. Car hits power line. Power goes out. Utility company brings power back on 40 minutes later. Upon flipping on restoration something at the plant happened which caused 3 time the normal power entering our neighbourhood tripping most, if not all, main circuit breakers on our homes. Some of us lost appliances, TV's, stereos, and other forms of electronic components. I also lost my energy bar. 2 Cor 15's, Trident - all of which are powered by the 1 link. However, after reading the documents or Neptune forums I remember a "best" practice with regards to the Cor 20 and I put the pump on a different circuit
So once power was restored, and I reset all of the breakers, at least one return pump was working allowing me to deal with the problem the next day since I had circulation...I'd like to just say what @ca1ore noted about setting it up is really crucial regardless of brand. Having went through what I described above I'm glad I had it on its own outlet. Saved my tank and stress level.
