Epoxy/Super Glue Toxin Disaster

[Terri Caton]

I thought I'd post this for everyone to get the experience of what Not to do!

3 days ago I added a new piece of rock to my tank. It was rock from a shipment I already had so I knew it was fine. I adhered it to another rock with Reef Welder plastic epoxy and Ecotech Coral Glue.

The next morning I noticed my 2 clownfish were acting strangely. Hiding under an overhang where they never have before. They were NOT shy fish Over the next couple of hours I saw them getting worse and worse. Their color looked "blanched" and then they started having balance problems while sitting on the sand. There were also 1 Yellow Assessor, 1 Royal Gramma and 1 Orchid Dottyback in this tank but I couldn't find them.

I had put 4 new fish in the tank the day before (one day after adding the rock) and was certain they did not have any diseases. They looked fine.

I yanked out the new rock and epoxy, did a 30% water change, changed the media filter. Didn't help. That night I didn't get much sleep because I was always checking on the poor things. So hard to watch them suffer.

The next day I had an in-home tank professional come over and check things out. At this point the clowns were looking dehydrated. Even the new fish were gasping. The only thing he could determine was also the new epoxy/glue combo I had used for the first time.

We did a 90% water change and put in Poly Filter. The clowns did not make it. The Orchid Dottyback is fine. The inverts and coral are fine. The new fish are fine. Still cannot find the Assessor or Gramma.

My lfs, who has been owned by the same family for 50 years, said that plastic epoxy and super glue are a toxic combo. I Never heard that when researching the Reef Welder. I just treated it like any other epoxy and super glue combo. The attachment of the rock was done in the water. It was a large piece so I used a large amount of the epoxy/super glue.

Well, very sad way to learn a lesson.

BTW, someone just emailed me and said the exact same thing happened to them 2 days ago. Reef Welder/Super Glue combo. Lost his beloved clownfish.

 

[Reefpuck]

Are you saying using the epoxy and glue together caused a toxic reaction?...or one or neither of them are reef safe? I was under the impression from other threads they were both reef safe.

 

[Katrina71]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[Terri Caton]

Are you saying using the epoxy and glue together caused a toxic reaction?...or one or neither of them are reef safe? I was under the impression from other threads they were both reef safe.

I think it seems to be the combo of the plastic type epoxy and super glue. Especially to Clownfish for some reason.

 

[Terri Caton]

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Thank you.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I think there are too many variables to specifically say it was mixing epoxy with glue. I have seen epoxy mixed with super glue with no ill effects, but don't recall the brand of epoxy. A few things jump out at me. How old is your tank? Did you place dry rock directly into your tank? How much rock? Did you check ammonia when fish were struggling? The rock could have been releasing ammonia. Were the fish quarantined?

 

[Terri Caton]

I think there are too many variables to specifically say it was mixing epoxy with glue. I have seen epoxy mixed with super glue with no ill effects, but don't recall the brand of epoxy. A few things jump out at me. How old is your tank? Did you place dry rock directly into your tank? How much rock? Did you check ammonia when fish were struggling? The rock could have been releasing ammonia. Were the fish quarantined?

Yes to QT
Water was perfect. Even took a sample to my lfs to be sure one of my tests wasn’t off.
It was the same reef saver rock I had used recently with no problems. From the same shipment.
Tank is 2 months old. Perfectly cycled with no issues.
It happened too fast for it to be most diseases and it wasn’t Brooklynella. Clownfish were 2 months old as well.
And for someone else to say the exact same combination resulted in the exact same issues with their clownfish at the exact same time as it happened to me? Maybe it’s something wrong with the same shipment batch? I’ll have to ask him if it was a recent purchase like mine.

 

[Water Dog]

This is what jumped out at me in the OP...

“I had put 4 new fish in the tank the day before (one day after adding the rock) and was certain they did not have any diseases. They looked fine.”

How much new rock was added? Was it cured? Although the 4 new fish looked fine, were they QT’d? Could adding 4 new fish and the new rock been the cause of a mini cycle?

I’ve used superglue gel with JB Water Weld epoxy with no ill effects before. Gonna have to look up this Reef Welder plastic epoxy to see what it’s all about.

*edit - just saw that you QT’d

 

[Terri Caton]

Yes to QT
Water was perfect. Even took a sample to my lfs to be sure one of my tests wasn’t off.
It was the same reef saver rock I had used recently with no problems. From the same shipment.
Tank is 2 months old. Perfectly cycled with no issues.
It happened too fast for it to be most diseases and it wasn’t Brooklynella. Clownfish were 2 months old as well.
And for someone else to say the exact same combination resulted in the exact same issues with their clownfish at the exact same time as it happened to me? Maybe it’s something wrong with the same shipment batch? I’ll have to ask him if it was a recent purchase like mine.

And it’s not all epoxy. It’s plastic bead epoxy and super glue that seems to be the issue.

 

[Terri Caton]

This is what jumped out at me in the OP...

“I had put 4 new fish in the tank the day before (one day after adding the rock) and was certain they did not have any diseases. They looked fine.”

How much new rock was added? Was it cured? Although the 4 new fish looked fine, were they QT’d? Could adding 4 new fish and the new rock been the cause of a mini cycle?

I’ve used superglue gel with JB Water Weld epoxy with no ill effects before. Gonna have to look up this Reef Welder plastic epoxy to see what it’s all about.

*edit - just saw that you QT’d

It was just one medium size piece of rock. But certainly more epoxy/super glue than adding a piece of coral.

I did a quick search but couldn’t find any reference to that combo being toxic but that’s what my 50 year of experience lfs owner said.

I’m wondering if it is maybe one batch of it? Not sure.

And water remained perfect through the entire thing. Before and after each water change.

 

[Terri Caton]

The water was only changed twice because we didn’t know what else to do. Parameters were perfect. Temp 78.

 

[Terri Caton]

This is what jumped out at me in the OP...

“I had put 4 new fish in the tank the day before (one day after adding the rock) and was certain they did not have any diseases. They looked fine.”

How much new rock was added? Was it cured? Although the 4 new fish looked fine, were they QT’d? Could adding 4 new fish and the new rock been the cause of a mini cycle?

I’ve used superglue gel with JB Water Weld epoxy with no ill effects before. Gonna have to look up this Reef Welder plastic epoxy to see what it’s all about.

*edit - just saw that you QT’d

I almost went with JB water weld. Guess I’ll try that next time. Was trying to get away from standard epoxy. Although I can say it will be a long time before I’m brave enough to try and affix anything else! It was beyond horrible to watch them suffer.

 

[CelticReef]

Sorry for your loss, I think your tank was just too new for all those fish even with a 30 Day cycle you do not have enough bacteria diversity to support adding more than one fish at a time in any size tank until the bacteria has time to catch up to the fish waste being added to the system and what a lot of new hobbyists don’t realize is even when fish breath they expel ammonia, I wish you luck on the next round try adding one fish a month let the biological mass establish between each new fish......go slowly.
If you let the epoxy or glue fully cure there should be no effect as both are inert once cured. If it was not fully cured I would agree it could have been a cause.
Removing the fish from the tank and taking them to your LFS and then doing a 90% water change was probably too harsh on the fish if the parameters were not exactly the same my guess is they were already compromised and it probably pushed them over the edge.

 

[Terri Caton]

The tank was new but not completely new. Already cycled live rock and some tank water.

It was too fast to be the fish.

Friday late afternoon added the rock.
Saturday morning the clownfish were under the overhang but otherwise appeared fine.

New fish added about 1pm. Within 1 maybe 2 hours at most the large clownfish started gasping.

All water parameters and temp completely normal before, during and after everything.

I agree about the shock and stress but there was no other choice. They were dying fast.

The epoxy/glue was done in the water. That’s the point. I was adding a piece of rock to a rockscape. According to all research it should have been fine. It obviously wasn’t.

I’ve had 2 experts look over the whole scenario. One came to my home and the fish weren’t even dead yet. Both said the same thing. It was the epoxy/glue.

 

[CelticReef]

Just curious ...How long did you let the epoxied rocks cure before adding them ?

 

[Terri Caton]

Just curious ...How long did you let the epoxied rocks cure before adding them ?

I didn’t. The rock was added in the water to an already existing rockscape.

 

[Gareth elliott]

I have never used this epoxy, when your say beads, is this a liquid epoxy? Liquid epoxies can very toxic to aquatic life.

Fwiw i like to use two little fishes epoxy, mainly because price the ecotech stuff is little expensive. But i use both epoxy and super glue together when attaching frags. Dab of super glue in the middle to secure than epoxy to fill the gaps and and shear support.

 

[tripdad]

The OP is talking about a very specific epoxy, not the usual two part, knead to activate stuff we have been using forever. To the OP, sorry for your losses and I hope you have better luck moving forward.

 

[Terri Caton]

I have never used this epoxy, when your say beads, is this a liquid epoxy? Liquid epoxies can very toxic to aquatic life.

Fwiw i like to use two little fishes epoxy, mainly because price the ecotech stuff is little expensive. But i use both epoxy and super glue together when attaching frags. Dab of super glue in the middle to secure than epoxy to fill the gaps and and shear support.

They are little white round beads. Like pearls. You soak them in hot water and they turn clear. Then squish them into a solid mass to adhere.

 

[Terri Caton]

The OP is talking about a very specific epoxy, not the usual two part, knead to activate stuff we have been using forever. To the OP, sorry for your losses and I hope you have better luck moving forward.

Thank you.