External parasite on wrasse

[B Lo]

Hey fellow fish lovers:

My wife noticed that our bicolor angel was occasionally scratching a bit against the rocks and our tang looked a bit pale. Nothing tremendously crazy but we've been looking at the aquarium more often on account of the change. The wife noticed, this evening, that the wrasse has some sort of external parasite on it. Rather than describing it, I'm just going to upload the images showing what we're dealing with. Any ideas? Also, I took the wrasse out immediately and have it in a quarantine tank with Cupramine, Paraguard, and MetroPlex all running in it. I figured regardless of what it is, this will likely treat it. If I can cut out one or two of these, though, I'd prefer not to medicate the heck out of the poor fish but I didn't want to wait to get treatment rolling. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Pbh-reef]

That looks like ich to me, which would require copper treatment. To rid the tank of ich you'll have to treat all the fish and leave the tank without fish for 76 days to be 100% sure you don't have ich in the system. Do you treat all your fish with copper in a QT before adding them to the display?

Here are the relevant threads to read, focus on the first post of these threads:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Keep all inverts in the display tank and feed the tank to maintain your bio filter while going fishless.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/

 

[Nokiaec11]

Not sure if all you fish can handle it, but setting the temperature of 86 degrees for 3 days will kill the ich...they cannot tolerate the heat.

 

[B Lo]

Thanks for the super prompt reply! I usually just observe but don't dip before adding. If they're good 10 days out, I acclimate them and put them in. That said, there have been no new additions for months. The only strange thing is that I had cirolanid isopods many, many months ago and treated the tank and hadn't seen any hint of them until a few weeks ago when they appeared in the sump but nowhere else. I cleared the sump and kept an eye on the fish and not a single cirolanid was to be found. I am pretty good at spotting them! I can pull all of my fish and just treat with the Cupramine if that will do it. 76 days is a long time but if that's what it takes, that's what I'll do. Any reason for me to continue on the other two meds or should I just stop dosing those? I'm just thinking of how much fun it'll be to catch everything in that system... :-/

That looks like ich to me, which would require copper treatment. To rid the tank of ich you'll have to treat all the fish and leave the tank without fish for 76 days to be 100% sure you don't have ich in the system. Do you treat all your fish with copper in a QT before adding them to the display?

Here are the relevant threads to read, focus on the first post of these threads:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-eradication-vs-ich-management.188775/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/copper-treatment.193343/

Keep all inverts in the display tank and feed the tank to maintain your bio filter while going fishless.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/

 

[ZachR32]

Raising the temp will not kill ich.
Check out this link for the tried and true methods that will https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[B Lo]

I'm not sure my inverts can handle it. If heat does them good, while medicating the fish in the QT, should I ramp the heat up a bit? Maybe to 81 or so? I don't think that would kill any of them but I am hesitant to crank it to 86...

Not sure if all you fish can handle it, but setting the temperature of 86 degrees for 3 days will kill the ich...they cannot tolerate the heat.

 

[B Lo]

Scratch that. No high temps for my fishies!

Raising the temp will not kill ich.
Check out this link for the tried and true methods that will https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[Pbh-reef]

Not sure if all you fish can handle it, but setting the temperature of 86 degrees for 3 days will kill the ich...they cannot tolerate the heat.

I have not seen this before and I would caution the OP to research this treatment before using it. The people on the forum who have the most experience with treating ich use copper, CP, and TTM as their methods of treating ich (and sometimes hypo). I would be careful with other treatment methods.

for more info see: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

 

[Pbh-reef]

Thanks for the super prompt reply! I usually just observe but don't dip before adding. If they're good 10 days out, I acclimate them and put them in. That said, there have been no new additions for months. The only strange thing is that I had cirolanid isopods many, many months ago and treated the tank and hadn't seen any hint of them until a few weeks ago when they appeared in the sump but nowhere else. I cleared the sump and kept an eye on the fish and not a single cirolanid was to be found. I am pretty good at spotting them! I can pull all of my fish and just treat with the Cupramine if that will do it. 76 days is a long time but if that's what it takes, that's what I'll do. Any reason for me to continue on the other two meds or should I just stop dosing those? I'm just thinking of how much fun it'll be to catch everything in that system... :-/

The only reason to keep with metro in the water is if you think the fish has Brooklynella or Uronema. I don't think it has uronema, a secondary brook infection is possible but I don't see it in the pics. If you think the fish has internal parasites, metro and prazi dosed into the food (usually through API General Cure bound to food with seachem focus) can treat those.

I would love it if @Big G @ngoodermuth @HotRocks or @4FordFamily would confirm the diagnosis of ich, because you all have more experience diagnosing from pics than I do.

 

[Nokiaec11]

Dosing with chemicals, and especially mixing the chemicsls can be toxic, and even the bottles warn you about that...Invertabrates can support ich as well, so if some hide in a rock or burrow in the sand, the ich will be alive and well after 76 days

 

[NoobReeefer]

Dosing with chemicals, and especially mixing the chemicsls can be toxic, and even the bottles warn you about that...Invertabrates can support ich as well, so if some hide in a rock or burrow in the sand, the ich will be alive and well after 76 days

not to be rude but please stop...your advise is horrible

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Looks like ich to me, all of your fish will need to be QT’ed and treated with copper. I would recommend the Hanna checker for testing the copper, it will allow you to keep it at 1.75 ppm easily. This is important for the wrasse as they can be sensitive. I would also recommend cheleted copper (copper power) as its easier on fish also. I don’t think you need to run any other meds then copper right unless you start to see a secondary infection. Once you get all of the fish in QT your DT will need to be fallow (fishless) for 76 days.

Make sure you support the fish’s immune system with high quality foods. Here is a link also on TTM which is effective against ich.



https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

 

[4FordFamily]

Not sure if all you fish can handle it, but setting the temperature of 86 degrees for 3 days will kill the ich...they cannot tolerate the heat.

This will kill the fish and will not work for marine ich. It may speed up the life cycle a bit and cause further stress giving the parasites the upper hand.

 

[4FordFamily]

I actually think you have velvet and a secondary bacterial infection. I also think if you don’t act immediately you’ll lose this one, you may anyway.

Copper and the “trifecta” would be mychoice — (kanaplex, metroplex, and furan 2). With these meds mixed you’ll need to add a bubbler and a powerhead aimed up breaking the surface.

Any fish exposed will need the same treatment and if ever in the display it needs to be run fallow for 76 days.

 

[4FordFamily]

...Invertabrates can support ich as well, so if some hide in a rock or burrow in the sand, the ich will be alive and well after 76 days

Also not true.

 

[HotRocks]

Agree with velvet diagnosis.

 

[ngoodermuth]

See, I’m not 100% convinced velvet because I’ve seen ich so bad it sort of looked like velvet... and it looked exactly like this. The spots just look more “ich” to me.

But, in either case... I would do a freshwater dip on each fish to remove as many as possible, followed by transfer to QT for treatment with copper/antibiotics.

Humble’s method here for velvet, would double for a severe ich infestation:

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...eef.com/index.php?posts/2499437/&share_type=t

 

[4FordFamily]

See, I’m not 100% convinced velvet because I’ve seen ich so bad it sort of looked like velvet... and it looked exactly like this. The spots just look more “ich” to me.

But, in either case... I would do a freshwater dip on each fish to remove as many as possible, followed by transfer to QT for treatment with copper/antibiotics.

Humble’s method here for velvet, would double for a severe ich infestation:

Velvet (Amyloodinium ocellatum)
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=1020&share_tid=217570&share_pid=2499437&url=https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/2499437/&share_type=t

One thing that helps me with ID is scale. This is a small fish which we can see by the fish species and the size of its eye relative to its body. Since it’s small the spots look larger. Also ich is rarely that numerous. Some of the larger spots are two or three velvet spots clustered IMO, others are likely ich as well.

My money is on both, but velvet and the infection are the most pressing issues here. Wrasse also don’t often show symptoms of ich, sometimes not even velvet. Just my .02.

They can be tough to tell apart but that’s part of what helps me.

 

[ngoodermuth]

One thing that helps me with ID is scale. This is a small fish which we can see by the fish species and the size of its eye relative to its body. Since it’s small the spots look larger. Also ich is rarely that numerous. Some of the larger spots are two or three velvet spots clustered IMO, others are likely ich as well.

My money is on both, but velvet and infection is the biggest issue here. Just my .02.

They can be tough to tell apart but that’s part of what helps me.

That makes sense... they are nice, close-up pictures so it looks larger than if I was looking at this fish in my own tank.

And it’s true, I’ve seen ich on tangs that looked as severe as this... but on a wrasse it would be very unlikely to get this bad if it were only ich. I defer to your judgement [emoji12]

 

[4FordFamily]

That makes sense... they are nice, close-up pictures so it looks larger than if I was looking at this fish in my own tank.

And it’s true, I’ve seen ich on tangs that looked as severe as this... but on a wrasse it would be very unlikely to get this bad if it were only ich. I defer to your judgement [emoji12]

Nah no need to defer I think we are both right! Honestly, I don't see ich symptoms on wrasse without another affliction of some sort -- typically velvet. Their immune response is often capable of fighting off ich, so if ich IS present it also indicates to me something else is going on that has weakened the fish dramatically.

Fairy wrasse aren't as hardy as Halichoeres, Leopards, and Thalassoma with regards to fighting off ich and velvet but they're still not very susceptible to ich standalone, IME.