Factors that explain why new tanks (<1yr) typically cannot support SPS

[MnFish1]

we can pack any pico reef with sps in week one and make it grow until it becomes problematic.

by using already cured live rock as the base.
pico reefs don't follow anyones rules they make their own. top shelf sps too, check out Maritza vase reef nowadays on youtube, vase is worth about 3 thou


the reason for sps issues is the dry rock phenom. even that is overcome by today's nano jedis but its still the biggest factor for the masses.

score deep purple live rock, in ten steps you go from freshater to sps aquarist I have the messages we enjoy the new rules approach

having a tank too large to access every substrate, and the whole water volume, is part of the reason the masses have issues with sps. its not about uber precise params and tedious salinity controls, we show they're pretty forgiving. Maritza is using JF-quality stuff, bright as emeralds year after year in a gallon all packed in.

its easier to grow sps in a fishbowl than it is in a square reef apparently.

Hey - how do fish stores and coral farmers grow SPS with no live rock in the tank?

 

[MnFish1]

I'm not quite sure, but I do have a picture that might show something about rock maturity.

The rock on the left and background has been wet for just over a year - I started curing it in March of 2018, after three months of curing it went into my display tank with no lighting for three months - July 2018 through October 2018. I had fish the entire time.

In October of 2018 I added an 8 bulb ATI Powermodule.

The rock on the right came from my previous tank, but was in the sump where it received 0 light. I used it for biodiversity, it had 0 coraline on it when we started. Coraline was introduced from trochus snail shells around July 2018.

You can see the difference in growth between the two surfaces quite clearly. There is something going on between s rock that is <1 year old vs one that is 1+.

Except there are lots of other potential differences besides the age of the rock. Corraline grows on glass - what does that say?

 

[Bob Weigant]

I would disagree with your thesis though.... I always put in SPS into tanks within a month of adding water. And that’s with dry rock and dry sand.

I have done the same. Had sps within 30 days of setting up new tank

 

[ccombs]

Here is something to think about - when a fish store sets up a frag tank - they dont wait a year - and they dont turn the corals over every week (at the LFS I go to they just put up a new frag tank - and some of the larger corals are still in the tank - and they did it over a couple week period. There are also a couple threads that have tried to set up a tank within a short period - that seemed to have worked.

Here are my answers: 1. People that are setting up a new tank don't know what they are doing. (ie testing, responding to test results (ie adjusting things quickly), etc.
2. The tank doesnt have enough nitrifiers to manage waste.
3. See # 1. To me there is no magic - unless the coral REQUIRES certain bacteria, etc in the water. I dont think its chemical - - in other words - so if a tank is 9 months old - why is it different than 1 year old. etc etc

It certainly isn't a black and white issue.

There is something to be said for a tank maturing and running stable parameters, there is also a lot to be said about what a new reefer learns in the first year lol.

I think there are a lot of rules like this in the hobby to cover 90% of the cases and protect the inhabitants. Nothing magical happens at 365 days, it is just an amount of time we say because it is a much easier answer than 'well it depends....' haha.

 

[RandyC]

I’m in the camp of it’s in the experience of the reefer. Most new reefers just don’t have the knowledge or the experience to deal with issues that crop up in a timely manner (or even have the tools/additives/media on hand) to deal with the issues that affect tank stability. I’d imagine more often than not, problems can get worse before problems are detected because new reefers aren’t in the know about the early telltale signs of the bad stuff to come. It could also be not understanding what good husbandry is for their tank as well and/or not testing as often as needed. I’ve been that newbie reefer too at one point and had plenty of my own “downs.”

I personally stick acros in tanks within days/weeks of it being cycled and never look back.

As for the rock issue, I don’t think there’s an issue of old vs new vs dry vs live rock growing coralline. As an example, here is Florida-inland mined rock that was bone white and dry as can be. I placed the rock in a Brute can of heated saltwater without light for 4-5 weeks to cycle and it has now been in a new tank with a full light spectrum for 4 weeks. Plenty of coralline growing for rock that has been wet for 2-2.5 months.

 

[Wildreefs]

Eric Borneman years ago did an article explaining the processses that occur in a new tank. Wasn’t til about 10 or 12 months until some of the subtle algae’s and bacteria’s took hold of the tank that had dramatic benefit to the aquarium.

 

[xjiang7]

I am also thinking people who don’t run into problems don’t talk about it (they don’t ask for help) my tank started with dry rock and from last Nov. but Acros have been doing well

 

[Firemanreefkeeper]

I think a lot has to do with the reefer and their experience level. My first tank was horrible and it took well over 6 months to grow acros without killing them. I learned from that and realized I needed stability, with nutrients and chemistry, before I should add anything. My second tank took about 3 months before things stabilized and I waited for coraline to grow before I tried. So far so good.

 

[chrismelb]

Interesting to hear that some don’t seem to have any issues starting with no live rock while others do. I do wonder what it is that you guys are doing differently.

The differences in coralline growth shown on the two rock pieces that DarkSky posted is really interesting as both pieces are in the same tank and suggests that experience may not be the only factor and that something else may be at play - perhaps something on the surface of the aged rock is promoting coralline algae but what it is, isn’t yet known.

 

[Acro maniac]

Agreed with the comment above about it not being an experience factor. There is definitely something benificial in aged, live, etc... that promotes growth weather it be coraline or sps.
I have had small acro frags testers, rtn in new systems and left them in and they grow coraline before the rock that was cycled in that system.
I also have tested this thought with fragging and attaching acro frags to brand new plugs vs plugs I threw in the sump months prior to fragging.
The frags attached to the plugs from the sump "cycled" grow noticeably quicker.
Just something to add

 

[ScottR]

I never planned to keep SPS in my tank. A friend gave me some clippings that I brought home and fragged. Couldn’t say no to that. My tank was about 3 months old at the time. 3 acros, a birdsnest, a staghorn and a monti. All lived but the 3 acros bleached and started collecting algae. Died.

As of now, birdsnest looks great. Stag is also looking good. Monti also looks good. So I concur that yes, new tanks are going to have a harder time. FWIW, my parameters were always stable. Calcium was a bit high - usually 470-490. Only thing was my temps fluctuated more than I had wanted at the time.

 

[Viking_Reefing]

My personal observation was that when I started my current tank with 2/3 dead rock, 1/3 of that crap they call live rock now days and LEDs I had tons more issues with stability then my last go around with starting a tank 10 years ago with all premium live rock and halides.

I don’t think it’s by any means impossible to keep sps (everyone seems to be referring to acros when they mention sps) in a newly established tank with dead rock, it’s just a lot less forgiving to mistakes.

 

[RandyC]

Agreed with the comment above about it not being an experience factor. There is definitely something benificial in aged, live, etc... that promotes growth weather it be coraline or sps.
I have had small acro frags testers, rtn in new systems and left them in and they grow coraline before the rock that was cycled in that system.
I also have tested this thought with fragging and attaching acro frags to brand new plugs vs plugs I threw in the sump months prior to fragging.
The frags attached to the plugs from the sump "cycled" grow noticeably quicker.
Just something to add

Coralline reproduces both sexually and asexually. Asexually it does so by releasing spores and flaking off pieces of itself. If you had frag plugs or rocks sitting in the sump of a system that already had coralline algae, it is very likely that the plug or rock is filled with coralline spores or flakes which would explain why it exhibits faster coralline growth than the new plug/rock.

For those interested in some facts regarding coralline: https://reefhacks.com/coralline-algae-reef-tank/

 

[Tautog]

Certain sps are extremely tolerant. Just wish any wholesaler would let you know. I recently screwed up not changing out my carbon and Phosguard, and a high Alkalinity spike. My No3’s and Po4’s were off the charts. A few of my sps have survived, and the rest had STN/RTN. None of my Chalices or Zoas were affected. ***** It also seems that I’ve killed the Apitasia.

 

[ReefyB]

It has nothing to do with the age of the tank. That’s just the “old school” rhetoric. Your ability to grow SPS is based on your own skill and knowledge as a reefer, combined with how much available time you have to contribute to the hobby. My current tank was my first time with acropora, but not my first reef tank, in which I added about 6 frags to the tank 2 months after setup. My tank is about 9 months old now and I haven’t lost a single one, in fact, they all have always been doing great, fully encrusted, and many new branches. I think the catch is, because I work from home, I’m able to keep a close eye on my tank everyday and adjust things as needed. SPS/acro’s aren’t hard, just need good lighting and flow, and to pay close attention to your tank.. I’ve lost more hammers/torches than SPS.

 

[Mortie31]

There isn’t one answer to this, it’s a mix of multiple factors, knowledge, system, stability of major parameters, previous experience (so response to changes is balanced and correct) type of sps selected, the dedication of the reefer. I don’t believe the live rock/ dead rock explanations at all, too much success and failure doing it both ways. Most coral breeders keep sps in shallow tanks on plastic shelves with very little biodiversity (sponges/ filter feeders etc) in the tank itself and there pretty successful (maybe the diversity is in remote sumps though). SPS are fickle and even the best reefers lose them. One thing I could virtually guarantee give a beginner a new tank and a spath and it will be dead pretty soon..

 

[MPS]

I put in my acros 2 weeks after setting up my tank with new water and dried rocks, no sand. Its working.[/QUOTE
That’s great! How long has it been?

 

[Cassian]

My aquarium is about 6 months old, maybe a little more. I recently got SPS and they are growing like weeds. I think the most important thing is to keep stable parameters and keep high enough calcium and magnesium for them.

 

[MnFish1]

It certainly isn't a black and white issue.

There is something to be said for a tank maturing and running stable parameters, there is also a lot to be said about what a new reefer learns in the first year lol.

I think there are a lot of rules like this in the hobby to cover 90% of the cases and protect the inhabitants. Nothing magical happens at 365 days, it is just an amount of time we say because it is a much easier answer than 'well it depends....' haha.

Just from my own start - I bought a tank - had a canister filter, heater - pretty good lights - bought some fish - did fine. Bought some coral - dead. bought some coral - dead, bought some live rock - most stuff died. Started reading instead of asking the the initial LFS I was buying from. OH - water tests - need to be done perhaps more often with coral. OH different light. Water tests done - try to correct - remaining coral died. Thought - its the light - bought more coral then bought a new light - all of it died. Kept up the water tests - dosed every week or so. coral still died. Read more - bought dosing pump - bought apex. Took about a year for this learning curve + more for various other things.

If I had a setup with all of the 'correct' equipment when I started up - I cant guarantee anyone that all the coral would have lived/thrived - but I since having set up multiple aquariums with coral relatively soon (ie. within a month) I think having the correct equipment to maintain stability - as well as the 'knowledge' how to correct testing issues (i..e the pH is low - I dont add buffer any more, etc etc). I think a lot of problems are caused by overreacting to tests which may or not be as accurate as we think they are. I use the @Lasse method when I set up new tanks BTW - though I do add extra bacteria.

 

[ccombs]

Just from my own start - I bought a tank - had a canister filter, heater - pretty good lights - bought some fish - did fine. Bought some coral - dead. bought some coral - dead, bought some live rock - most stuff died. Started reading instead of asking the the initial LFS I was buying from. OH - water tests - need to be done perhaps more often with coral. OH different light. Water tests done - try to correct - remaining coral died. Thought - its the light - bought more coral then bought a new light - all of it died. Kept up the water tests - dosed every week or so. coral still died. Read more - bought dosing pump - bought apex. Took about a year for this learning curve + more for various other things.

If I had a setup with all of the 'correct' equipment when I started up - I cant guarantee anyone that all the coral would have lived/thrived - but I since having set up multiple aquariums with coral relatively soon (ie. within a month) I think having the correct equipment to maintain stability - as well as the 'knowledge' how to correct testing issues (i..e the pH is low - I dont add buffer any more, etc etc). I think a lot of problems are caused by overreacting to tests which may or not be as accurate as we think they are. I use the @Lasse method when I set up new tanks BTW - though I do add extra bacteria.

100% agree. I use the Lasse method as well and I continue to add more bacteria than specified.