Fed up with Apex

[HawaiianReef]

Whatever. I’ve never had a tank that needed calcium or magnesium tested twice a day or even daily for that matter. What’s the point of making it so that the user can’t change these to whatever they desire other than the company wants a consistent revenue stream from overpriced consumables.

Edit: Wow! The reagents are $50/month at the lowest setting. So it costs almost as much to run it for one single year as it does to just purchase it.

Thanks for bringing up this issue.
I have an apex classic, but I never set it up yet. Got it used for a build Im doing. I began to consider the Trident, so I started looking into the 2016 apex new.
I had no idea Neptune programmed the Trident so the user Can't decide how many tests are done per day. That is a HUGE insight on the business practices of the company in my opinion.
I guess more GHL research.
Thanks again Paul

 

[HawaiianReef]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula)
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

Exactly. But...
but locking the consumer out of deciding if they would like to test less often. Once a day, every other day, every six months, that should be programmable on the user's end.

 

[MnFish1]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula)
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

it is clearly a revenue stream - it may not be a 'profit stream' but... its certainly a revenue stream

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for bringing up this issue.
I have an apex classic, but I never set it up yet. Got it used for a build Im doing. I began to consider the Trident, so I started looking into the 2016 apex new.
I had no idea Neptune programmed the Trident so the user Can't decide how many tests are done per day. That is a HUGE insight on the business practices of the company in my opinion.
I guess more GHL research.
Thanks again Paul

Are you kidding????? this has been discussed for at least a year - and I guarantee you that @Paul Sands did not initiate it..... Note - I think Neptunes design that you need to do 4 alk tests and x ca and x mg tests per day is ridiculous. Note I think their comment that its .09 cents per test is stupid - as you could to them a lot more often and say we're doing 100 (UNNECESSARY) tests per day - so its .0001 /test.... The reality is - that for this device to work - you need to do the minimum tests. And if you dont like it - buy another system. @Terence has mentioned several times - why it makes sense - for his device...... But - for this device it does...

 

[Potatohead]

Don't forget you have to send it in every 18 months for service. They may bring up a program where they send you a pre-serviced one and you send in your old one for the next guy, but I don't know if that has been determined. I also don't know if the cost of this servicing has been announced yet or not, but even the fact you have to do it at all was not mentioned until the product released.

 

[User1]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula)
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

Yes, I am saying that selling regents is not a revenue stream. Or at least that isn't their play. I'm not speaking for them nor am I an employee. It is just my opinion. Their money is made by selling units of both trident and controller and other accessories that make up the ecosystem. Furthermore, I am also saying that there is no hidden agenda based on the required number of tests per day or associated limits of said tests (which is a complaint several here have stated because it is set to a specific number and if so allowed to lower it would prolong the regent content).

I'm saying that I just do not see it has a primary reason to develop the Trident because they want revenue. If that really was the case, that they wanted a source of revenue, then as I and someone else said we would all be paying for Fusion access. Since we are not being charged for Fusion access I can only surmise that there is no said revenue stream requirement, push, rush, or whatever else we want to assume. Assume, opinion, etc. Right? I believe Fusion is hosted in AWS. AWS isn't cheap especially when you start throwing load balance, persistent storage, snap shots, and other things into the mix. So again we are not paying for portal access is just another point why I think that. People do pay for portals or content (my comment about ESPN, CBS OnLine access, NASCAR, etc) - we do not. There is no other connection than to say revenue is not the reason. Period. Now, I'm not foolish enough to say they are not making money off them, but it isn't their motivation.

They will make their money has information starts to flow about how it does or does not work. How it trends. How much precision there is or how accurate it can be. This will lead to new controllers being sold, more tridents, conversion of controllers, and other products sold that make up the ecosystem.

TLDR - no, not for our own good. DIY - someone did mention that elsewhere. No - I don't think it is a revenue stream but I very well could be wrong. Shall I buy the first round of beverages?

 

[road_runner]

Well, i believe selling reagent is 100% revenue stream and 100% have profit angle otherwise no P&L would do it and bare the hardship if building it, dealing with customers, guanratnee its quality...etc.
So we will agree to disagree...

 

[User1]

Don't forget you have to send it in every 18 months for service. They may bring up a program where they send you a pre-serviced one and you send in your old one for the next guy, but I don't know if that has been determined. I also don't know if the cost of this servicing has been announced yet or not, but even the fact you have to do it at all was not mentioned until the product released.

I believe it was said optional but recommended. May also be able to do it yourself via kit. I know this was a hot topic in another thread so I'm guessing we could both search to see specifics.

 

[User1]

Well, i believe selling reagent is 100% revenue stream and 100% have profit angle otherwise no P&L would do it and bare the hardship if building it, dealing with customers, guanratnee its quality...etc.
So we will agree to disagree...

No problem. I think we are both good.

 

[MnFish1]

Selling anything is a revenue stream... They are not a charity - more power to them.... I takes a certain kind of person - to think they are just seeing tridents without any reference to the solutions. No offense @saf1 but - IMHO you might. be incorrect...... If you are correct Neptune is not marketing their products correctly... I.E - selling the 'blades' in addition to the 'razor' is common - for them not to have accounted for that seems odd - were I to believe your idea..

 

[User1]

That's for 2 months.

Correct - regents "should" last or are estimated to last 2 months at the lowest setting.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/products/expansion-modules/trident/

Specifically: Reagent comes in 2-month kits (based on the default testing schedule of 4-Alk/2-Ca/2-Mg per day).

 

[User1]

Selling anything is a revenue stream... They are not a charity - more power to them.... I takes a certain kind of person - to think they are just seeing tridents without any reference to the solutions. No offense @saf1 but - IMHO you might. be incorrect...... If you are correct Neptune is not marketing their products correctly... I.E - selling the 'blades' in addition to the 'razor' is common - for them not to have accounted for that seems odd - were I to believe your idea..

Np - I could be completely out in left field. Razor blades are a great example so I hear and dig it.

 

[road_runner]

I believe it was said optional but recommended. May also be able to do it yourself via kit. I know this was a hot topic in another thread so I'm guessing we could both search to see specifics.

Btw let me bug you bit more.
Selling kits, maintenance fees are also 100% revenue streams and 100% have profit angle...
This is true in any buissness in the world...

 

[User1]

Btw let me bug you bit more.
Selling kits, maintenance fees are also 100% revenue streams and 100% have profit angle...
This is true in any buissness in the world...

You are not bugging me. And yes, kits, maintenance, completely agree.

 

[chefjpaul]

Trident!


aaaannd go...

Hahahahaaaaaaa...look what you did... clever.

 

[WWIII]

Hahahahaaaaaaa...look what you did... clever.

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

 

[User1]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

"T" trident
"T" torpedoed also worked

But to be fair - I think the OP has already decided to switch so now we can all move along and let them post in the GHL sub forums to come up to speed. Also some of you provided some good information based on your use. So I believe they are in good hands.

 

[JoshH]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Sounds like a blurb for a T-Shirt...

"Don't mention the T word..;Rage;Rage;Rage"

 

[chefjpaul]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Seriously.... very funny though!
So much discussion on a piece of equipment that was only a pipe dream a few years ago, we should be fortunate these companies even exist to R&D this stuff and then produce it. Glad I am not on that train anymore.

 

[Akersta]

I don’t want to thrash a company/sponsor. Nor do I want to write a novel on all the problems I’ve had with this system. I invested heavily into the Apex /Neptune system and it has not worked for me other than being an on/off switch for some gear.
I am thinking of switching to GHL, as I need a way to help monitor my system as I travel. But i have found it a little difficult to find reviews and such on GHL. Are there any other systems you could suggest?

I share your frustrations with Neptune. At the start of my build 3-4 years ago,I had very elaborate plans to use my Apex to automate as much as possible on my system. Initially I had one head unit controlling 4-5 tanks with over (30) devices. Then about (6) months into using my 2016 Apex, the head unit somehow lost the program file. Neptune customer service could not tell me why this happened or that it wouldn’t happen again. At the time I didn’t know you could back up the program in case this were to happen. Needless to say I spent (6) hours of my Friday night reprogramming my system.

Moving forward, I started experiencing issues with my head unit locking up for several hours at a time. Sometimes I could restart the Apex to resolve the issue, sometimes I’d have to cycle power, etc. This went on for several months until I came home one evening and the head unit had the purple light of death. Luckily I had just purchased a backup head unit and installed it while my old unit was shipped back. Unfortunately, even with the ability to download the old program, there is not a way to actually clone the head unit for direct replacement. You have to keep track of the order of each device and plug them in on by one. This was nearly impossible to do on my system with so many devices and cables. I also have all my cables wire tied and in sideways making it a huge task to pull apart. I then had to start the entire system over from scratch at about midnight that night.

At this point, my blood is boiling as my system is completely torn apart and I have no clue if everything has been programmed correctly. I reached out to Neptune several times via. email and phone calls to try to speak with the Curt Pansegrau (the owner) in hopes of finding out what was causing these issues and seeking reassurance that these issues would be resolved. I never heard back from Curt and always received the run around from customer support. They didn’t care that I had purchased over $10k in Neptune/Apex equipment or that their faulty equipment was placing my $30k+ in livestock in jeopardy. That is when I decided to part ways with their products.

I’ll admit they make some very nice products for the price point. Being a mechanical engineer, I’m well aware of the development and manufacturing costs that go into such products. I honestly believe their products could be much more reliable with a little more upfront testing. However, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with working through the issues with me. Now the only enjoyment I get from my Apex items is selling them off a couple grand at a time.