Fed up with Apex

[ShawnSaucier]

They act that way until its proven to be their problem. then they step up to the plate. But the initial contact is often suboptimal. Perhaps its because a great percentage of the calls they get ARE end user problems - and so they assume thats the case. But - when I as an end user have researched on their (not so easy to navigate forum) read the manual 3 times, and call in and am referred to the website - it does anger a person.

This is where my issue was with the CS Reps. When I had called, I would run down the list of how and what I did with trying to connect or what ever troubleshooting I had been able to do. And I had always referred to the website/forums/YouTube first before making any call, understanding that usually it may be user error. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time as much as I don’t want mine wasted.

 

[lbacha]

I manage tier 2 and tier 3 production software support for a 6 billion dollar company. When an issue makes it to us it gets resolved quickly and my team is paid well to provide that level of support. The problem is it needs to make it through our companies tier 1 support before it makes it to us. Tier 1 support is expensive and unfortunately many times they are just reading from a script. This is the same for most companies out there. Most tier 1 support groups try to direct users through self troubleshooting before they elevate. Due to the limited number of tier 2 and eventually tier 3 (the software developers and hardware engineers themselves) because of the cost of those resources tier 1 does their best to solve the problems themselves or at least determine if it needs elevated. While this may be annoying for the end user that truly needs a higher level of support for the majority of the calls it works just fine.

Having said that I have had to submit 2 tickets into Neptune’s support network both times because I let my equipment get wet (the board on a DDR and as we speak I’m getting the board on my DOS fixed). Both instances tier 1 quickly determined the unit needed to come in and set me up with the ticket number to do that. The DDR fix took about a week from the time I sent it in till the time I got it back. I just sent the DOS in Friday so we will see the turnaround.

No company is perfect but Neptune has a pretty well though out support network that uses a 3 tier approach like most large companies. Smaller companies can get away with a more hands on approach where the actual engineers m are supporting the customer but they will quickly scale themselves out of that if they are successful.

Len

 

[ShawnSaucier]

This post has flopped back and forth on what I was originally writing about. But I can understand both sides of the added content.
First, with pricing, for the retailers there is very little mark up from what they pay APEX/Neptune to what they are allotted to sell the units for. When and if there is ever a sale, the retailer receives “credits” for units sold allowing them to still retain the small profit margin that they make. Even the larger retailers like BRS or M. Depot are in the same situation. So to sell units at a cheaper price would be silly business.
Second, Apex/Neptune have used social media and all of its tools to help create and turn themselves into a reefer’s household name. If I owned a company, I would try to do the same thing. The problem is that we need more selection and education on what other products are out there. I am sure there are several smaller companies from Europe or Asia that would love a piece of the market, but once you factor in all of the manufacturing and shipping cost, to be competitively priced your profit margin drops to nothing. Or the price seems so over inflated ( to cover costs) that consumers would cry that “ I can get the same thing for half the price!” Again, as a company, why would I want to do that?
Lastly Trident.. it is what it is. It seems that there are several people that are talking about costs to keep running, accuracies,
Ect. My money will go elsewhere..

 

[Darrell Brady]

Patiently waiting on the mindstream. I actually think they are close to releasing it.

 

[Darrell Brady]

Patiently waiting on the mindstream. I actually think they are close to releasing it.

 

[N2950H]

Patiently waiting on the mindstream. I actually think they are close to releasing it.

I've never heard of this. Can you elaborate?

 

[ChrisW]

@ShawnSaucier you seem to have the connected w/ some of the more thorough and straightforward GHL-ers on here, not just company standard bearers or apologists. @Ohashimz is another competent person to connect w/ if they are willing to for GHL info, that is another I would reach out to.
This is all healthy for the market though in my opinion, b/c the more GHL is talked about, sold, or even just researched, thats just a tiny bit more of a foothold in the market they get. Competition is good for both companies. Reading these forums about the pros/cons of Neptune, it seems, IN MY OPINION ONLY, that they are sort of resting on their laurels. They have no real competition here in the states. Competition creates better products. Neptune seems to have the financial backing to do the R&D that most companies cannot. It seems from the outside that once they know they dominate the market, w/out any real challenge for the crown, quality tends to slip a bit. And quality doesnt have to be in the hardware. Customer service is a huge part of all this, so what good is a well researched, designed, produced product that has subpar support. At some point that end needs to catch up to the product. Just an opinion, and this is coming from an Apex user, who up to this point has not had any issues to date w/ the product. Not looking forward to the time when I do and I'm in the unenviable position of having to call their CS and may get that person that isn't as helpful as a CS rep should be. I am one who went w/ Apex b/c I did not know of GHL at the time due to my lack of proper research, but in hindsight, I wish I would've gone w the latter

 

[road_runner]

Check this post. Have some good debates and informations.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=597041&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

Ghl is incredible and from quality stand point is superior in my openion.

Simple exercises is to compare the spec of each element between diffrent controllers and alot will be revealed.

Will take a bit of learning curve to get over fusion since ghl interface is diffrent.

But one thing I realized with GHL: I check my system stats less frequent because things just work..... I cannot say I had the same feeling with my 6 years of apex usage..

 

[Darrell Brady]

Goggle mindstream aquarium monitor it checks 10 parameters

 

[Snookin]

Goggle mindstream aquarium monitor it checks 10 parameters

It looks like it’s a $900 device that uses equations based off PH, salinity and Co2 to come up with an estimated Alk value. Also, charges $35/month for access to their online portal to view your testing and control. $420 yearly cost to have access to their site seems excessive. No real strengths I see vs GHL or Apex platforms.

 

[HawaiianReef]

I'm a noob and am finally going to set up a serious reef.
I was looking at a new apex system for a build Im preparing. I figured in a budget of 2k. And I don't have a lot of money, so this will have to cut out some serious livestock from my list. Maybe a fowlr without the fish lol.
I was trying to convince myself a solid platform is priority.
After reading 1 page here, I'm going to do more research. I know nothing about GHL. I'm glad there's another controller available. Monopolys can be very dangerous. Not for the company, for the consumer.

 

[Leadfooted]

Check this post. Have some good debates and informations.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=597041&share_fid=1020&share_type=t

Ghl is incredible and from quality stand point is superior in my openion.

Simple exercises is to compare the spec of each element between diffrent controllers and alot will be revealed.

Will take a bit of learning curve to get over fusion since ghl interface is diffrent.

But one thing I realized with GHL: I check my system stats less frequent because things just work..... I cannot say I had the same feeling with my 6 years of apex usage..

Thanks

 

[road_runner]

I'm a noob and am finally going to set up a serious reef.
I was looking at a new apex system for a build Im preparing. I figured in a budget of 2k. And I don't have a lot of money, so this will have to cut out some serious livestock from my list. Maybe a fowlr without the fish lol.
I was trying to convince myself a solid platform is priority.
After reading 1 page here, I'm going to do more research. I know nothing about GHL. I'm glad there's another controller available. Monopolys can be very dangerous. Not for the company, for the consumer.

If you compare feature to feature and abilities you will see that more support comes with less equipments with the ghl. Which means less wires, more support and subsequently cheaper...

Quality wise I personally believe that ghl quality is superior at least on my end.

Have fun with your research and feel free to ask if you have questions. Good community here on all controllers. Most of ghl users used to be apex users.
I started with digital aquatics 10 years ago them switched to apex for 6 years now am on ghl.

 

[road_runner]

Thanks

The challenge on the forums is to sort through emotional posts, hidden motives posts and fanboy posts. This goes to all controllers btw.
I personally have simple compass. What's the OP's reef looking like. The user experience show with their reefs. I try to understand the user experience before I take on advices..

Have fun with your jurney.

 

[MnFish1]

The challenge on the forums is to sort through emotional posts, hidden motives posts and fanboy posts. This goes to all controllers btw.
I personally have simple compass. What's the OP's reef looking like. The user experience show with their reefs. I try to understand the user experience before I take on advices..

Have fun with your jurney.

Is there webpage where you access your GHL on a computer (not only a phone app)? That may not be a big deal to most people - I would rather use my computer (like Fusion).

 

[cmcoker]

Is there webpage where you access your GHL on a computer (not only a phone app)? That may not be a big deal to most people - I would rather use my computer (like Fusion).

There is a web version, myGHL, that can be accessed on a computer anywhere. There is also the Control center software you can use on a windows computer, I have a profilux 3.1 Ex, and use an USB cable to connect my laptop to the controller if I want to use the Control Center software.

I keep the USB plugged in to the controller, that way it is accessible whenever I want to do something. However, with the upgrades to myGHL, browser and the app, I have found I need to do that less and less. I usually only connect the laptop to download my probe data, as Profilux 3 doesn't seem to get the nice charts of recent trends through myGHL or the app, I do see the current reading though.

I can use the IP address to see the charts through the web server function when I am on my home network, as well as trigger feed or maintenance modes, etc.

 

[road_runner]

There is a web version, myGHL, that can be accessed on a computer anywhere. There is also the Control center software you can use on a windows computer, I have a profilux 3.1 Ex, and use an USB cable to connect my laptop to the controller if I want to use the Control Center software.

I keep the USB plugged in to the controller, that way it is accessible whenever I want to do something. However, with the upgrades to myGHL, browser and the app, I have found I need to do that less and less. I usually only connect the laptop to download my probe data, as Profilux 3 doesn't seem to get the nice charts of recent trends through myGHL or the app, I do see the current reading though.

I can use the IP address to see the charts through the web server function when I am on my home network, as well as trigger feed or maintenance modes, etc.

Ha ha yes all what's in this post)
So far I am useing my ghl app the most. But again i really use app and log less often with ghl, things just work..

 

[russell13]

I have to say I have had a very different experience with my Apex system. It was the first controller I purchased and I really had no idea what I was doing. With a little research on the web and a few calls to the company I had it running without any problems. I found there customer service to be quite helpful and would purchase one again

 

[ReeferBean]

Whatever. I’ve never had a tank that needed calcium or magnesium tested twice a day or even daily for that matter. What’s the point of making it so that the user can’t change these to whatever they desire other than the company wants a consistent revenue stream from overpriced consumables.

Edit: Wow! The reagents are $50/month at the lowest setting. So it costs almost as much to run it for one single year as it does to just purchase it.

That's for 2 months.

 

[ReeferBean]

Patiently waiting on the mindstream. I actually think they are close to releasing it.

I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

[road_runner]

Because there are people that do test more than that judging by the demand of the Trident and looking at the frequency of how others are using other products testing similarly. Just because you or I don't test that frequently there are those that do.

Furthermore the horse is tired from its flogging about the consistent revenue stream of overpriced consumables. They are not overpriced and when directly compared to the same tests done A: Manually and B: By similar automated testing units trident was within margin.

Lastly - review the video in which they discuss why there is a minimum test requirement. It has to do with how the system works. While not directly apples to apples it would by similar to why you have to replace a refrigerator water filter, oil change, oil filter, or an IV in a patient.

Based on what you are saying the product isn't for you. No harm, no foul. However, the foul is when you continue to say the regents are a revenue stream or a money grab without knowing how the bloody system works and why there is a set test limit. That isn't a fan boy or fan girl that is just saying you are speaking out of ignorance with regards to how the product works. I will say I fell into that trap and have since moved on.

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula)
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But