Fed up with Apex

[Pntbll687]

Somethings yes i Was going on vacation for a month and my afs stopped working for the second tome so I had it overnited same thing with my wavs
The brain I didn’t have to I don’t think but I did go two days without a controller

That SUCKS!!

Did they at least offer standard shipping and you chose to overnight it to them?

Reading this thread it makes me glad that I have stayed away from any controllers on my tank.

 

[justingraham]

That SUCKS!!

Did they at least offer standard shipping and you chose to overnight it to them?

Reading this thread it makes me glad that I have stayed away from any controllers on my tank.

I don’t remember

 

[BZOFIQ]

... MAP pricing while I personally do not like it helps the hobbyist so that we don't end up with the situation that is going on with Tridents on Ebay for a couple grand. Other companies do this -...

This is the first time in my life where I see MAP pricing being projected as a tool to protect the consumer - you must not be serious.

 

[roberthu526]

They make you pay shipping when it is under warranty???

Of course! It’s their standard policy.

 

[MnFish1]

I don’t want to thrash a company/sponsor. Nor do I want to write a novel on all the problems I’ve had with this system. I invested heavily into the Apex /Neptune system and it has not worked for me other than being an on/off switch for some gear.
I am thinking of switching to GHL, as I need a way to help monitor my system as I travel. But i have found it a little difficult to find reviews and such on GHL. Are there any other systems you could suggest?

I don't know the statistics - but I would bet that the reason you see more 'issues' numbers wise with Apex is that there is a far larger installed based of Apex systems as compared to GHL - but who knows the percentage of GHL owners that have had problems. BTW - I agree with you about some of the problems - and using the Apex more as an on/off switch for things than 'controlling things'. But - that is also by design here -the more I tried to control with Apex the more I realized that if I didnt have a backup system - my entire tank could be messed up with one small problem (it happened twice) - that said - I would not use a GHL (or other brand) controller any differently - for the same reason.

 

[Pntbll687]

Of course! It’s their standard policy.

That's crazy!

That would be like a car dealership charging a deductible on a warranty repair.

I thought it would be something like, the customer pays shipping to Neptune and then they credit your card when they verify it is a warranty repair and they ship the product back.

People are paying $1000 easy for the products and still have to pay shipping. This literally blew my mind ;Greedy

 

[BZOFIQ]

RAP is around the corner, I might have to forego my ethernet port requirement this time around.

Sick and tired of the APEX politics, lies and broken promises. On top of it all, the fanboy-ism surrounding the product is vomit inducing.

You have top players in the hobby being "bought" with free product or "sponsorships" just to step in and defend the poor line of product and Neptune's lack of support.

 

[Pntbll687]

This is the first time in my life where I see MAP pricing being projected as a tool to protect the consumer - you must not be serious.

I agree with you. MAP pricing does nothing to stop people gouging pricing on ebay or third party resellers. It's in the name MINIMUM advertised price, it does nothing to prevent someone from charging more.

I in general do not like, and do not support companies that institute a MAP price. They are artificially setting the floor for which their product can be sold for and trying to force a perceived market value for the product, the "it's expensive, it must be good".

 

[User1]

This is the first time in my life where I see MAP pricing being projected as a tool to protect the consumer - you must not be serious.

I personally don't care for MAP. However, it is something that is agreed to and thus we are all seeing a set price of $599.00. I don't know what the MSRP is so not sure what their profit margin is and that is another discussion. I see this with other products like I noted above say Fesstool.

It isn't ADM or VAT at least...

 

[User1]

Sick and tired of the APEX politics, lies and broken promises. On top of it all, the fanboy-ism surrounding the product is vomit inducing.

Everybody has their own bias.

You have top players in the hobby being "bought" with free product or "sponsorships" just to step in and defend the poor line of product and Neptune's lack of support.

This has nothing to do with Neptune and everything to do with social media. Since you are trying to get a dig on some of the top users or beta testers there are some major players using Neptune products in a real world situation. Why wouldn't you want those people to actually test your products? On the other hand as you say about sponsor and products based on number of subscribers, likes, or posts in your build thread - yeah. That is another issue and usually the reader can read through the crap. I say usually...

If you are tired of the products then hopefully you find something that works for you.

 

[MnFish1]

Neptune Systems considers all problems to be an end-user problem. They act as if they're totally baffled by the idea that something could go wrong with their product.

They act that way until its proven to be their problem. then they step up to the plate. But the initial contact is often suboptimal. Perhaps its because a great percentage of the calls they get ARE end user problems - and so they assume thats the case. But - when I as an end user have researched on their (not so easy to navigate forum) read the manual 3 times, and call in and am referred to the website - it does anger a person.

 

[MnFish1]

Well, a quick perusal of eBay shows that their “MAP” pricing isn’t preventing resellers from offering tridents for obscene amounts of money online. And Neptune could easily write the MAP clause to set a max price while allowing vendors to sell the product for less if they were trying to prevent price gouging. Neptune would make the same amount even if the seller offered it on sale.

MAP pricing is something that companies with monopolies typically pull. It doesn’t help the consumer. It helps the company make their product seem like a premium product that never goes on sale. It’s in the interest of the company at the expense of the consumer.

Listen, I get it. If I had cornered the market I would do everything I could to protect my market share. That’s exactly what Neptune is doing using every tool they have available. It’s not in our interests. It’s in their interest.

Hmmm - so - you could also make the point that since they are selling them for $599.99 instead of $899.99 - they are protecting 'the customer's interest'. But - in all honesty - why would anyone sell a Trident - for example for less than the suggested price? That is only needed when there is no demand. Only a foolish retailer would discount a product where people are literally running in to buy them.

BTW - there are lots of ways around MAP. Firstly - a vendor can sell anything for any price they want - they just cant advertise it. Secondly - there are many online sites that say something (on the product) like 'once the item is in your shopping cart - you can see a special discount price' (this is also legal with regards to MAP.

https://www.thebalancesmb.com/what-is-minimum-advertised-price-2890196

 

[MnFish1]

Well, a quick perusal of eBay shows that their “MAP” pricing isn’t preventing resellers from offering tridents for obscene amounts of money online. And Neptune could easily write the MAP clause to set a max price while allowing vendors to sell the product for less if they were trying to prevent price gouging. Neptune would make the same amount even if the seller offered it on sale.

MAP also has nothing to do with a private individual re-selling a product. Or even a retailer selling a product for OVER the price. For example I could sell a trident on ebay for $400 if I wanted to (why would I) - I don't have a MAP agreement with Neptune

 

[AZMSGT]

They act that way until its proven to be their problem. then they step up to the plate. But the initial contact is often suboptimal. Perhaps its because a great percentage of the calls they get ARE end user problems - and so they assume thats the case. But - when I as an end user have researched on their (not so easy to navigate forum) read the manual 3 times, and call in and am referred to the website - it does anger a person.

Have you ever had to talk to a Technician because your internet or cable are acting up? same attitude.. Your fault till you can prove it's our fault. Pretty standard attitude across the entire tech world from my experience. Not defending Neptune.. just comparing experiences.

 

[Hemmdog]

Have you ever had to talk to a Technician because your internet or cable are acting up? same attitude.. Your fault till you can prove it's our fault. Pretty standard attitude across the entire tech world from my experience. Not defending Neptune.. just comparing experiences.

If your talking about cox I know that rodeo...

 

[Adele]

I’m sitting here looking at my brand new Apex in the box that’s part of a new build. Not feeling so excited right now :/

Well if it helps, I thoroughly enjoy my ApexEL and DOS for AWC and monitoring. Set up was a snap and my life is a LOT easier with it in place. Not to say another system wouldn't provide a similar experience, but don't let others personal frustrations with Apex take away from your enthusiasm on your new system, for what I find to be an excellent product. When the dust settles, I WILL be getting the trident and another DOS to add another aspect of stability to my reef.

 

[MnFish1]

I agree with you. MAP pricing does nothing to stop people gouging pricing on ebay or third party resellers. It's in the name MINIMUM advertised price, it does nothing to prevent someone from charging more.

I in general do not like, and do not support companies that institute a MAP price. They are artificially setting the floor for which their product can be sold for and trying to force a perceived market value for the product, the "it's expensive, it must be good".

SO lets pretend I'm an LFS - and order 5 Tridents - and lets say I'm BRS and I order 500 Trident. Which company do you think can negotiate the 'better deal' with Neptune. The reason for the MAP (in addition to making it seem 'exclusive') is also to protect little shops that do not order in large quantities (i.e. BRS might be able to lower their price below the price of the smaller LFS).

In any case - I don't see it is consumer negative at all.... It does seem like there is a lot of misunderstanding about what it is. For example - anyone can sell anything on ebay for any price - above or below the MAP.

 

[Entz]

SO lets pretend I'm an LFS - and order 5 Tridents - and lets say I'm BRS and I order 500 Trident. Which company do you think can negotiate the 'better deal' with Neptune. The reason for the MAP (in addition to making it seem 'exclusive') is also to protect little shops that do not order in large quantities (i.e. BRS might be able to lower their price below the price of the smaller LFS).

In any case - I don't see it is consumer negative at all.... It does seem like there is a lot of misunderstanding about what it is. For example - anyone can sell anything on ebay for any price - above or below the MAP.

How can price fixing (everyone charges the same online) not be consumer negative? There is no competition. If it was in the interest of the consumer I could get it from BRS for 20% cheaper because they can get a better price due to volume. That is the benefit of going with them. Same reason everyone goes to Costco or Sams club or Walmart or whatever....

Protecting the little guys is of course a noble pursuit and I agree but making it so that nobody online can even have a "sale" is silly.

 

[User1]

Have you ever had to talk to a Technician because your internet or cable are acting up? same attitude.. Your fault till you can prove it's our fault. Pretty standard attitude across the entire tech world from my experience. Not defending Neptune.. just comparing experiences.

On a unrelated note noticing your avatar - what air frame are you working on now and what is your afsc?

 

[Entz]

Have you ever had to talk to a Technician because your internet or cable are acting up? same attitude.. Your fault till you can prove it's our fault. Pretty standard attitude across the entire tech world from my experience. Not defending Neptune.. just comparing experiences.

Coming from someone who does support from time to time part of the issue is you just do not have the tools initially to know whose fault it is .. and most likely its the end users. Usually takes logs and screenshots and back and forth (what did you really do).

I am sure this is true of Neptune as well. Its not like that are going to say, give me 30s while I pull up your APEX internal diagnostics. Oh port VDM1 is showing a temp probe you have it in the wrong slot dummy. It does sound like there have been changes as of late that have caused issues though, nobody should get yelled at over calling in.