Feeling conflicted about keeping wild caught fish

[RWReefer]

I don't add a lot of fish so there may not be a lot to follow.

It is QT but observation with the exception I will medicate (dose) in this tank but nothing that isn't reef safe. Also only if symptoms are noticed. Copper or other treatment would get moved to a seperate tank.

I just finished the second round of prazi. The CBB was already in for a few months and I introduced a melanurus in hopes of it helping with a flatworm issue I have in one of my tanks. I noticed the wrasse flashing so I decided to treat with prazipro. I normally wouldn't add a second fish but I wanted the CBB to learn to eat with some competition and needed the wrasse anyway so? This is the current set up a few weeks ago . A 29g tall with aquaclear 110 and a jebao power head. The rock is from a tank tear down of mine.

The wrasse will be coming out tomorrow.

Appreciate it. While I plan on adding fish I want to do it slowly so this serves as good inspiration for what I was thinking I wanted to do. Thank you.

 

[JayM]

Yesterday was a rough day having lost a flame angel that was shipped to me and arrived in a bad way and ultimately died a few hours later.

Today my mind is going to the fact that this fish was in the ocean not so long ago and would most likely be alive had there not been a market for him. I love this hobby and want to keep enjoying it, but I’m needing some help seeing the positives of keeping these wild caught fish.

Please try to convince me it’s OK!!!

Just remember two things:

Nature is brutal, and pretty much every domesticated animal was once wild.

We’ll get there.

 

[PharmrJohn]

I really hope that they do have a better life in the tanks of people who know what they are doing. Maybe I should start focusing on that.

Yep. There have got to be those who ask The LFS 'Is ionized salt good enough? Or just regular?' Those you worry about.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Yesterday was a rough day having lost a flame angel that was shipped to me and arrived in a bad way and ultimately died a few hours later.

Today my mind is going to the fact that this fish was in the ocean not so long ago and would most likely be alive had there not been a market for him.

Or it could have been dinner for a bigger fish.
Or you could have croaked before the fish was delivered.

You just never know

 

[NoLarvatusplease]

Yesterday was a rough day having lost a flame angel that was shipped to me and arrived in a bad way and ultimately died a few hours later.

Today my mind is going to the fact that this fish was in the ocean not so long ago and would most likely be alive had there not been a market for him. I love this hobby and want to keep enjoying it, but I’m needing some help seeing the positives of keeping these wild caught fish.

Please try to convince me it’s OK!!!

Plenty of tank raised fish you can purchase nowadays and coral too.Just google it.Sorry for your loss.

 

[edsbeaker]

Thanks all for your responses! I think my takeaway from this thread is that for those of us that are RESPONSIBLE reefers who care about the welfare of our livestock there will always be these nagging doubts of the ethics in removing fish from the ocean for our own pleasure. I will try to move forward with the concept that in many ways there are advantages for them, plentiful food and nothing preying on them. I am looking forward, though, to the days where most fish will be readily available as captive bred, but for now we just have to strive to do our best to protect them as best we can.

 

[carol3]

Oh yes, a touchy subject for me too. I've kept only freshwater for 65 years for this very reason. I know it sounds really silly but I like to think that my tank doesn't feel like a tiny glass jail compared to the vast ocean, captive bred fish don't know anything else but glass. Finally there are enough captive bred fish and farmed corals that I can have a guilt free reef, LOL. I have to say, some of the captive bred fish I've bought have been small enough that first they have had to go into a softy/macroalgae tank I have set up for the very purpose of TLC, and also, I have been on the wait liist for over a year for two fish I specifically want, but that's ok, It's a wait that is worth it for me. HUGE thanks to ORA and Biota and all the others that are doing this great job!!

 

[voelter76]

There’s always stamp collecting.

I collect minerals!! Almost as much fun as my reef!

 

[Fish Fan]

The captive bred list is growing and we are so lucky to have what we do. it wasn't long ago that it was clownfish and maybe bangaii.

Biota does sell captive bred flames

Bonus is you get to see a fish grow from a tiny juvi to an adult and morph in color and body shape and you know that fishes age and that it can live a long life if well cared for.

I do hate shipping fish as it breaks my heart to see them die, there is no LFS where I live now so that is the only option most of the time but I do make a 2 hour drive south to pick up fish now and agian.

I will say that many fish still die in shipping.. to whole saler... to the LFS... to you... so in reality... it's just not seeing it in front of you but it's still there.

Sorry, thats not an answer to what you wanted, the opposite really. I buy wild fish but will purchase captive when I can.

The fish that do make it into tanks... if they have a good keeper will have lower stress than in the wild.

If you can buy diver direct (basically KPA's Caribbean fish) they probably don't have much of a death rate there. They are netted and don't travel far and you get an exceptional specimen that you know is free of cyanide and not starved along the way from far off places.

Also some fish are much better shippers than others and choosing a vender to supply them is important.. and proper quarantine.

This is my latest addition from Fishotel, went in today, hour later he’s out and eating (the spots are just particulate in the water, no filtration or sump yet).

I just want to second Biota. I have only one of their fish, a Court Jester Goby that I got back in February. I’ve been very happy with this purchase. He did come to me small, which I expected based on my research before purchasing from Biota. But I personally like getting small fish and seeing them grow, and my Court Jester Goby has grown and colored up nicely.

I also read that these Court Jester Gobies can be difficult to feed when wild caught. But my tank-raised Court Jester from Biota eats everything including frozen, pellets and flakes foods. Awesome!

If you want to try another Flame Angel and can get one from Biota, I would recommend that as a very good option.

 

[edsbeaker]

Oh yes, a touchy subject for me too. I've kept only freshwater for 65 years for this very reason. I know it sounds really silly but I like to think that my tank doesn't feel like a tiny glass jail compared to the vast ocean, captive bred fish don't know anything else but glass. Finally there are enough captive bred fish and farmed corals that I can have a guilt free reef, LOL. I have to say, some of the captive bred fish I've bought have been small enough that first they have had to go into a softy/macroalgae tank I have set up for the very purpose of TLC, and also, I have been on the wait liist for over a year for two fish I specifically want, but that's ok, It's a wait that is worth it for me. HUGE thanks to ORA and Biota and all the others that are doing this great job!!

So true. What breed of fish are you waiting for?

 

[edsbeaker]

I just want to second Biota. I have only one of their fish, a Court Jester Goby that I got back in February. I’ve been very happy with this purchase. He did come to me small, which I expected based on my research before purchasing from Biota. But I personally like getting small fish and seeing them grow, and my Court Jester Goby has grown and colored up nicely.

I also read that these Court Jester Gobies can be difficult to feed when wild caught. But my tank-raised Court Jester from Biota eats everything including frozen, pellets and flakes foods. Awesome!

If you want to try another Flame Angel and can get one from Biota, I would recommend that as a very good option.

Beautiful Goby.
The vendor is replacing the flame angel. Then my tank is fully stocked. Going forward, though, it’s going to only be captive bred.

 

[sky414]

Yesterday was a rough day having lost a flame angel that was shipped to me and arrived in a bad way and ultimately died a few hours later.

Today my mind is going to the fact that this fish was in the ocean not so long ago and would most likely be alive had there not been a market for him. I love this hobby and want to keep enjoying it, but I’m needing some help seeing the positives of keeping these wild caught fish.

Please try to convince me it’s OK!!!

I think you are spot on. I have a huge DT, or at least I thought it was huge until I went snorkeling. My 8 foot tank is nothing compared to where these fish come from. Had I not gotten started before it went snorkeling, I would have passed. Now, thousands upon thousands of dollars in, I’m just too shellfish to quit. ‍

 

[edsbeaker]

I think you are spot on. I have a huge DT, or at least I thought it was huge until I went snorkeling. My 8 foot tank is nothing compared to where these fish come from. Had I not gotten started before it went snorkeling, I would have passed. Now, thousands upon thousands of dollars in, I’m just too shellfish to quit. ‍

Its a hobby with an angel on one shoulder saying “leave that fish in the ocean”, and the devil on the other shoulder saying “but it would be so nice to be able to see it every day in my own glass cage! “. Its tough!!!

 

[Biota_Marine]

I just looked at the Biota Group website. I wasn’t aware that they had that many varieties of captive bred. The majority are out of stock so I don’t know what the wait time would be for a lot of them, but I’m sure it’s going to improve in time. That’s a great thing for sure. I think cost is an issue with captive bred now, too, but maybe in 10 years they will become more widely available and reasonably priced.

You can always send us a DM or email if you're looking for a specific species and we can usually give a rough time table when it might be back in stock

 

[Opes]

When I go on dive trips I have a bit of guilt about the aquarium trade. I take good care of my fish and have had most of them for 5 years minimum. That being said, when you see a tang, angel, or trigger in the wild it is hard not to notice that 99% of aquarium fish are built nothing like them. Aquarium fish are almost always skinnier. Since my last dive trip I have increased my nori feedings dramatically to see if I can get them to look like their cousins in the ocean.

You also notice just how much of an area tangs and other open water fish cover. To give them a proper long term environment you need a truly massive tank.

I would prefer to buy captive bred or from hobbyist selling livestock whenever possible. When buying fish from the ocean I try to make informed decisions and really ask myself if I can properly care for the animal.

 

[edsbeaker]

When I go on dive trips I have a bit of guilt about the aquarium trade. I take good care of my fish and have had most of them for 5 years minimum. That being said, when you see a tang, angel, or trigger in the wild it is hard not to notice that 99% of aquarium fish are built nothing like them. Aquarium fish are almost always skinnier. Since my last dive trip I have increased my nori feedings dramatically to see if I can get them to look like their cousins in the ocean.

You also notice just how much of an area tangs and other open water fish cover. To give them a proper long term environment you need a truly massive tank.

I would prefer to buy captive bred or from hobbyist selling livestock whenever possible. When buying fish from the ocean I try to make informed decisions and really ask myself if I can properly care for the animal.

Thanks for your insight.
When we know a wild caught fish is in the care of someone with your ethics and thoughtfulness for a fishes welfare it reduces the concern a bit. Unfortunately I feel that there are far too many people taking on the responsibility who don’t have a clue what they are doing or are selfishly placing fish in an unsuitable environment. The fish doesn’t have a chance for a quality life in these instances.