first fish purchase died :( WHY?

[LochNess23]

I just purchased my first reef fish yesterday (Red Firefish goby) and I'm pretty disheartened to see it now dead. Any idea why and how I can improve so my next one does not follow the same fate?

Chronological order of what I did:
- cycled with TurboStart 900 bacteria, ammonia chloride, and 50x 2" bio media cubes for 2 weeks in a 20gallon tub in the dark
- added 20 lbs of live rock and 4 hermits, half dose of ammonia chloride with tiny bits of sinking pellets, cycling 4 more weeks
- At the end of 6 weeks, several more dosing of ammonia would drop back to 0ppm after 1-2 days
- moved all live rock and bio media to 50gallon tank with fresh saltwater (100% water change)

Water was crystal clear, 7-stage RO/DI water 0ppm, saltwater specific gravity 1.025, temps 78F, sump and plumbing not setup yet but there is a powerhead, heater, and air bubbler in display tank.

The following day, I added the first fish. Temp and drip acclimated for 4 hours. First 4 hours he hid in the rocks but slow built confidence and eventually swam around in the open water column for ~10hours. I fed it and it aggressively ate. I didn't monitor for the next 6 hours but when I came back, it had very little movement. About 24 hours after it was first introduced, it's dead.

Hermits are now feasting on it. Should I let this continue or remove the dead fish? Please help me determine what went wrong

 

[L0L_Z]

It was most likely a disease. I had a betta die like this once, I later found out it had ich. So I’d remove it from the tank, as things could get ugly. Inspect the body for ich or velvet and if you cant find it, it was most likely stress, a temp drop or an internal parasite

 

[LochNess23]

It was most likely a disease. I had a betta die like this once, I later found out it had ich. So I’d remove it from the tank, as things could get ugly. Inspect the body for ich or velvet and if you cant find it, it was most likely stress, a temp drop or an internal parasite

When I bought it, I didn't see any ich. It was healthy and swimming about up until after the feeding. Assuming it already had ich, this can make a fish go south within hours?

 

[L0L_Z]

I’m not saying it has to be ich, I’ve seen fish with ich die very fast, too as the fish could have been suffering from a long time.
Maybe you had a salinity/temp drop? Also I do NOT recommend fire fish as I have seen my friends (experienced reefers) that can keep high end sps and a couple can keep leopard wrasses and mandarins but something is just off about this fish. Poor little guy. Maybe try something easier, like a clown or a small blenny, or if you are daring, a Naoko wrasse

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I don't think its anything you did wrong, if a fish dies the first day, I usually believe it was just not strong enough to handle the netting/transportation/acclimation to new tank process.

(although I do think 4 hours acclimation is overdoing it, I usually acclimate 30-40 minutes)

 

[EricR]

I don't think its anything you did wrong, if a fish dies the first day, I usually believe it was just not strong enough to handle the netting/transportation/acclimation to new tank process.

(although I do think 4 hours acclimation is overdoing it, I usually acclimate 30-40 minutes)

I agree with all of this.

Also, since you have no fish right now, this would be a good time to read up on "quarantine" methods and consider if, going forward, you might want to run the tank fallow (fishless) for 6+ weeks and start quarantining all new fish.
*not suggesting that disease was your issue because I doubt it was but just for future safety

 

[threebuoys]

If the fish had no physical signs of parasites, I suspect the rapid death was more likely due to either a significant difference between the salinity in the transport bag and the salinity in your tank, or something toxic that found a way into your tank.

You mentioned hermit crabs, do you have any other life in the tank that may have been aggressive towards the fish?

Often, vendors maintain lower salinity than the typical target of 1.026. When the salinity difference is more than about .004, the acclimation should occur over at least a couple of days instead of a few hours. Not all fish have difficulty adjusting, but when they do, death can occur.

Any possibility of chemicals such as soap, or any water additives you did not mention?

Certainly possible that stress just overwhelmed the fish, but unless it was captive bred, I suspect the stress it had was less than what it had just getting to the states.

 

[LochNess23]

Also I do NOT recommend fire fish as I have seen my friends (experienced reefers) that can keep high end sps and a couple can keep leopard wrasses and mandarins but something is just off about this fish. Poor little guy. Maybe try something easier, like a clown or a small blenny, or if you are daring, a Naoko wrasse

I thought firefish were beginner fishes. At least that's what youtube and online retailers says.

My train of thought was adding the least aggressive fish first. I'll try a Royal Gramma next.

 

[brandon429]

We are seeing lots of acclimation errors lately undisclosed, that Jay is pointing out in the disease forum and other places. Long bag floats and drip acclimation have been identified along with no acclimation additions where a typical low salinity fish store fish is added right into .025 water=osmo shock

 

[LochNess23]

(although I do think 4 hours acclimation is overdoing it, I usually acclimate 30-40 minutes)

If the fish had no physical signs of parasites, I suspect the rapid death was more likely due to either a significant difference between the salinity in the transport bag and the salinity in your tank, or something toxic that found a way into your tank.

You mentioned hermit crabs, do you have any other life in the tank that may have been aggressive towards the fish?

Often, vendors maintain lower salinity than the typical target of 1.026. When the salinity difference is more than about .004, the acclimation should occur over at least a couple of days instead of a few hours. Not all fish have difficulty adjusting, but when they do, death can occur.

Any possibility of chemicals such as soap, or any water additives you did not mention?

Certainly possible that stress just overwhelmed the fish, but unless it was captive bred, I suspect the stress it had was less than what it had just getting to the states.

I was going to temp and salinity acclimate for 2 hours but when I tested LFS's water, it was unconventionally low at 1.017! So I doubled the acclimation time to 4 hours. The drive was also 1.5 hours in 50F weather.

Freshly cycled tank so no other creatures other than hermits from 4 weeks ago. I haven't started dosing anything (no corals or plants yet), and since it's my first tank, I'm careful about washing my hands with tap water, then quick rinse with RO/DI (I'm sure this carefulness with eventually wear off lol).

If nothing in my procedure is wrong, then I'm going to chalk it up to overly stressed fish from the huge salinity difference. Maybe I'll acclimate for longer than 4h if buying from the same LFS.

 

[LochNess23]

We are seeing lots of acclimation errors lately undisclosed, that Jay is pointing out in the disease forum and other places. Long bag floats and drip acclimation have been identified along with no acclimation additions where a typical low salinity fish store fish is added right into .025 water=osmo shock

LFS = 1.017
my tank = 1.025

How long should I acclimate for next time? 4h this time may or may not have killed it.

 

[threebuoys]

LFS = 1.017
my tank = 1.025

How long should I acclimate for next time? 4h this time may or may not have killed it.

i would at a minimum go 48 hours.

 

[brandon429]

The loss has been identified it seems. Excellent input. Disease was about 90% likely to take him eventually anyway even if acclimation didn’t, due to today’s trending for species other than common clownfish and even those are stepping up in disease loss rates it seems. Jay said acclimation to that high / normal salinity should take days not as a drip, but in a holding cycled tank. Nice call threebuoys

 

[TurboTang]

That's a significant change in salinity. 4 hour acclimation won't work. Best to raise salinity from 1.017 to 1.021 or so and wait a day before gradually raising to your target 1.025. I would avoid purchasing fish from that low a salinity if possible.

 

[brandon429]

Nice one. test salinity at the store with our own meter, buy from similar holding salinity ideally. Using own own meter saves on employee guesstimates or calibration differences between salinity meters

 

[LochNess23]

The loss has been identified it seems. Excellent input. Disease was about 90% likely to take him eventually anyway even if acclimation didn’t, due to today’s trending for species other than common clownfish and even those are stepping up in disease loss rates it seems. Jay said acclimation to that high / normal salinity should take days not as a drip, but in a holding cycled tank. Nice call threebuoys

That's a significant change in salinity. 4 hour acclimation won't work. Best to raise salinity from 1.017 to 1.021 or so and wait a day before gradually raising to your target 1.025. I would avoid purchasing fish from that low a salinity if possible.

The only other holding "tank" I have is the tub I used during the 6 week cycling. Sigh... that would mean another set of powerhead, heater, and air bubbler. I can't just acclimate for days in the bag.

 

[brandon429]

Call around to shops in your area and ask who keeps fish at a reasonable salinity or order them that way online is ideal.

 

[TurboTang]

This is why I recommend not buying fish from such low salinity because it requires much more work. But if I remember correctly this was the first fish you added. If that's the case you could lower the salinity of DT to match, quickly acclimate, and then slowly raise salinity over days. This only works if you don't have other livestock in DT

 

[LochNess23]

This is why I recommend not buying fish from such low salinity because it requires much more work. But if I remember correctly this was the first fish you added. If that's the case you could lower the salinity of DT to match, quickly acclimate, and then slowly raise salinity over days. This only works if you don't have other livestock in DT

Sump and plumbing almost done and once it is, I'll fill it with RO/DI water to lower salinity to about 1.020 (hopefully enough sump volume for this, haven't done the math). I'll top off evaporated water with saltwater instead of RO/DI.

THANK YOU everyone for pointing out acclimation issue/shock.

PS - @brandon429 can you link to disease thread where most fish will eventually die of disease? Didn't find it in Jay's forum

 

[IKD]

If you acclimate for 4+ hours, make sure you have a heater to keep temp stable as well