Fish dying with no obvious cause

[Thatmeganchickk]

Also, any recommendations on protein skimmers? I have an old reef octopus one currently.
I am also bringing a bottle of water to a different fish store tonight and they will check my ammonia for me so we can rule that out

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

I'm kind of a luddite. I don't use a skimmer. But I've read where many have said you don't really need one running during start up. Let's see if that is the way to go or not. Help is on the way #reefsquad

I’m mostly just wanting it up and running in case there really is an issue with my water or oxygenation needs because I’ve read that it can help remove waste and add oxygen. It’s an expense that I’d rather not have if it’s not necessary. I know the prior owner didn’t run it for a few months when he gave me the tank because he thought it was broken

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

Hi again. I took the water in to get tested tonight for a bunch (including ammonia) they said it was good. I bought a peppermint shrimp because I think he can help my CUC since I only have the pajama to feed and there will probably be some food sitting around in the tank (not on purpose). This LFS guy agreed with you all that my other store sold me tough fish. I’ve always liked the atmosphere at this shop better but it’s 30 minutes out of my way whereas the other is on my way home from work. But if helps me be a more successful reefer, I’m ok with the drive!

 

[DonTavo27]

I would say, just let the smoke settle a bit, and maybe just take the pump off the skimmer and give it a good cleaning with a tooth brush. also check the airline connection for the skimmers airline tubbing, sometimes they get salt build up inside, and will cause the skimmer to underperform.
As far as fish, you may want to consider starting a little Quarantine Tank, that way you can properly treat all the fish before putting them in your main display. A Qt set up should cost you somewhere around $50-$80. You can get a 10-20 gallon tank for Quarantine from petco or pet smart, it’ll be your cheapest option. In this hobby, everything takes months to develop properly, sometimes, tanks won’t settle for up a year and half or 2 .
Just be patient. Don’t throw Away your money, I know how you feel, when you see all the beautiful fish, and coral, but if not done correctly, it can push you away from the hobby, and cause you to throw away your hard earned cash. You came to the right place. Take your time reading through the Forums, and finding everything you need to be successful at it, It’ll pay in the end.
also, invest in some test kits from salifert, Red Sea or Hanna if you’re feeling like a baller. That way you can be sure you’re getting the proper test results.

 

[DonTavo27]

Hi again. I took the water in to get tested tonight for a bunch (including ammonia) they said it was good. I bought a peppermint shrimp because I think he can help my CUC since I only have the pajama to feed and there will probably be some food sitting around in the tank (not on purpose). This LFS guy agreed with you all that my other store sold me tough fish. I’ve always liked the atmosphere at this shop better but it’s 30 minutes out of my way whereas the other is on my way home from work. But if helps me be a more successful reefer, I’m ok with the drive!

 

[samnaz]

I'd invest in a few test kits, one less reason to have to drive 30 mins out of your way to the LFS. Not to mention you'll have more specific numbers and results you can trust because you did the test yourself. I'm curious when your LFS "tested a bunch and everything was good", did they provide numbers? Are they tracking your parameters to ensure they are stable? To just say they are good could mean just about anything...

You may also consider adding a nassarius snail to the cuc, they are great for scavenging uneaten bits of food and detritus. Not sure how effective peppermint shrimp are in that department (I wasn't aware they are useful for anything other than aiptasia control).

 

[DonTavo27]

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

This is a good start for a QT process

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

I'd invest in a few test kits, one less reason to have to drive 30 mins out of your way to the LFS. Not to mention you'll have more specific numbers and results you can trust because you did the test yourself. I'm curious when your LFS "tested a bunch and everything was good", did they provide numbers? Are they tracking your parameters to ensure they are stable? To just say they are good could mean just about anything...

You may also consider adding a nassarius snail to the cuc, they are great for scavenging uneaten bits of food and detritus. Not sure how effective peppermint shrimp are in that department (I wasn't aware they are useful for anything other than aiptasia control).

I have a test kit, it just doesn’t test for ammonia and I wanted to make sure that wasn’t an issue.
he just showed me the colors compared to the chart for each level they tested and they were all the right colors. It’s the same as my testing kits so it doesn’t give you exact numbers unless they’re at zero. I was running late for plans so I figured “good” was enough for me at the time. I’ll get better info next time I get it tested. I’ve been tracking my own nitrate, calcium, phosphorus, and kH. They’ve been stable. I think the issue came from removing the Kenyan trees and doing it with the live rock still in the tank (I’m new and didn’t know any better and my old LFS “forgot” to tell me). Unfortunately I don’t think that toxin they release really shows up on any test.
liveaquaria said they’ll go around and eat uneaten food and other things in the tank, so that’s what I’m basing that off of.

 

[laverda]

We tested for ammonia a week ago with nothing showing up. I can buy an at home test and check it again tomorrow. The copper banded was the only one having breathing issues, so I don’t think he would have been the only one affected if it was a big water issue?
I hosed off the rock with my garden hose to get bubble algae and the remainder of the Kenyan trees off without doing it in the water. My LFS assured me it wouldn’t be an issue. The tank is between 3-4 years old. I got it already established 6 months ago. I didn’t have any issues until he told me to pull the Kenyan trees out but failed to mention that I should do this outside of the tank. All the rock came with the tank so it is at least 6+ months old. It looked more established before I removed the Kenyan trees.
I went to the LFS today and dropped off the perc and the body of the copper band. I’m doing frequent water changes and just added in carbon. It seems like my protein skimmer is about to kick the bucket so I’ll be picking up a new one of those as well. So my tank just has the pajama cardinal, 12 hermit crabs, and some bigger crab I saw last week while cleaning. I’m going to leave it like this for a few weeks and then retest the water to see if anything changed and then I’ll add in fish from a different store. I’m done buying from that guy since he was not giving me good buying advice and he always blamed my tank/my fish for things happening instead of realizing that I was being very honest when I said I was a clueless beginner. Let me know if there is anything else I should do.
Im pretty upset about losing this fish... it’ll be the 3rd fish I’ve bought from him in the last 3 months that died - all 3 died within a 30 day period (a few days after pulling the Kenyan trees). I’m just hoping giving the tank some time to settle and continuing with the water changes will bring it back and let me have a happy tank again.

Washing the rock with a garden hose is not something you want to do again unless you want to create a cycle in your tank again. I have to wonder why he told you to remove your Kenya trees? There is nothing wrong with having them except they can be invasive. How did you remove them?

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

Washing the rock with a garden hose is not something you want to do again unless you want to create a cycle in your tank again. I have to wonder why he told you to remove your Kenya trees? There is nothing wrong with having them except they can be invasive. How did you remove them?

Yea, I’m not sure why he said that either. I’m learning he gave me a lot of bad tips. He told me Kenya trees are like weeds and pull out too much oxygen so I needed to remove them (I protested because I liked the look of them and hadn’t had any issues) but he was adamant that there were way too many and I should just pull them all out. He demonstrated by reaching a hand in the tank and pinching a baby one off... so I went in and punched the base of the rest of them and pulled them out too. He was also adamant that I need to do a complete water change and then add in a chemical to prevent it from cycling that way my tank “starts fresh” I’ve done 5 gallon water changes weekly but I’m not sure if I should really do a full one since my levels have been good? I feel like he might just be saying that so I have to buy like 90 gallons of saltwater from him. I don’t remember his logic behind hosing off the rocks - maybe something to do with really cleaning the Kenya trees off? But he kept telling me to do it so I finally did (and I found a crab I didn’t even know I had) and then he sold me the copper banded and perc clown like 4 days later. So it’s only been about a week since I did that. He also told me to suck up ALL the sand (he says I have too much) and rinse all of that with a garden hose too (I have not). I told him my water isn’t even something I drink without it being filtered (would a 5 stage rodi system be ok for me?) and that I would worry what it would do to my tank but he swore up and down it’d be fine.
When I went to his store yesterday to drop off the perc and the body of the copper banded he said something about my tank being “off” and I reminded him that I didn’t have issues until I pulled the Kenya trees like he told me - he was very annoyed at me for saying that and said I just “didn’t understand the knowledge” he was trying to give me.
Unfortunately, I didn’t realize the advise was bad until I lost 3 fish but I’m staying away from him now and hopefully my tank will fix itself (with the help of regular water changes and carbon) and I can get it going in a few months with more livestock

 

[laverda]

Lots of bad advice there! If your sand Is dirty and you wish to clean it there are better ways to do it then a garden hose. You can get strainers to use when doing water changes to suck the detrus and what not out of the sand when doing. Wash it in salt water not fresh if you want to wash it, but only do a portion at a time. The same goes for your live rock.
I don’t think it is possible to have too much sand. How much sand does the ocean have? Sand is one way if keep your system stable. If it is aragonite sand it helps stabilize the ALK and PH. It also is an area where nitrates are broken down and lots of benifical bacteria live. It can also be a nutrient trap adding to the nitrate problem if too course. Now he may not like the way it looks but that is a personal choice.

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

Lots of bad advice there! If your sand Is dirty and you wish to clean it there are better ways to do it then a garden hose. You can get strainers to use when doing water changes to suck the detrus and what not out of the sand when doing. Wash it in salt water not fresh if you want to wash it, but only do a portion at a time. The same goes for your live rock.
I don’t think it is possible to have too much sand. How much sand does the ocean have? Sand is one way if keep your system stable. If it is aragonite sand it helps stabilize the ALK and PH. It also is an area where nitrates are broken down and lots of benifical bacteria live. It can also be a nutrient trap adding to the nitrate problem if too course. Now he may not like the way it looks but that is a personal choice.

I’m really not too worried about my sand. My hermits are constantly shifting through it and my peppermint shrimp should help too. I really don’t think I have that much. Maybe like 3/4” depth?
Thanks for cleaning advice! I’m gonna not touch anything for a while so it can all settle down for now

 

[DonTavo27]

It sounds like he’s giving you advice on how to clean an aquarium full of goldfish/freshwater Tank.
I switched display tanks, back in November, and at one point, just stopped doing water changes,
Just keeping it topped off, and started dosing kalkwasser in my Auto top off reservoir. The live rock is finally starting to Clear up from the Hair algae, and the corals looks super happy, I even added a Bleached Acro, which has grown and colored up since.

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

It sounds like he’s giving you advice on how to clean an aquarium full of goldfish/freshwater Tank.
I switched display tanks, back in November, and at one point, just stopped doing water changes,
Just keeping it topped off, and started dosing kalkwasser in my Auto top off reservoir. The live rock is finally starting to Clear up from the Hair algae, and the corals looks super happy, I even added a Bleached Acro, which has grown and colored up since.

He knows my tank is saltwater but yea, it seems like he definitely isn’t giving me good advice.
I wasn’t doing water changes as regularly before pulling the Kenya trees but I want to be sure there isn’t an undetected toxin floating around so I’m hoping water changes will help.

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

Follow up question: a few of my live rocks now have this yellow/brown color on the top. What is it and do I do anything to get rid of it? Sorry I’m such a newbie

 

[samnaz]

Follow up question: a few of my live rocks now have this yellow/brown color on the top. What is it and do I do anything to get rid of it? Sorry I’m such a newbie

My guess is this is algae reestablishing itself since the rocks were hosed off. I wouldn't worry about it. Looks like diatoms which will take care of themselves over time. Whatever it is, I don't see it as something to worry about or take action for at this time.

How long were the rocks out of water for? And how much was the sand bed disturbed?

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

My guess is this is algae reestablishing itself since the rocks were hosed off. I wouldn't worry about it. Looks like diatoms which will take care of themselves over time. Whatever it is, I don't see it as something to worry about or take action for at this time.

How long were the rocks out of water for? And how much was the sand bed disturbed?

They were out of water for maybe an hour? Some less. And I didn’t really mess with the sand so it was only really disturbed when I was rearranging the rock.
I was guessing diatoms from my googling but I just wanted to double check. Ok. Thanks!

 

[samnaz]

They were out of water for maybe an hour? Some less. And I didn’t really mess with the sand so it was only really disturbed when I was rearranging the rock.
I was guessing diatoms from my googling but I just wanted to double check. Ok. Thanks!

Hmm. Perhaps there was a bit of die-off when the rocks were out of water, in addition to some algae needing to re-establish itself on the rocks after the hosing down plus the areas that were once covered by the kenyas. This is just my best guess. At any rate, I would not be concerned about the diatoms at this time.

Also a sidenote, I agree with the others that mention your LFS guy has given misinformation and not so great advice. First and foremost, I highly recommend that you ask us at reef2reef ANY and all questions you may have in the future. We have nothing to gain from offering advice. We do it only for your benefit, and our only goal is to help you and your tank succeed. At the end of the day, a LFS needs to make a profit, therefore, they unfortunately can't always be trusted. Regardless of whether or not your LFS guy is trustworthy... It NEVER hurts to ask the reef2reef community, just keep that in mind ;-)

 

[Thatmeganchickk]

Hmm. Perhaps there was a bit of die-off when the rocks were out of water, in addition to some algae needing to re-establish itself on the rocks after the hosing down plus the areas that were once covered by the kenyas. This is just my best guess. At any rate, I would not be concerned about the diatoms at this time.

Also a sidenote, I agree with the others that mention your LFS guy has given misinformation and not so great advice. First and foremost, I highly recommend that you ask us at reef2reef ANY and all questions you may have in the future. We have nothing to gain from offering advice. We do it only for your benefit, and our only goal is to help you and your tank succeed. At the end of the day, a LFS needs to make a profit, therefore, they unfortunately can't always be trusted. Regardless of whether or not your LFS guy is trustworthy... It NEVER hurts to ask the reef2reef community, just keep that in mind ;-)

It seems like my elephant slug is working on the diatoms so I’m feeling better. I was just worried my tank was crashing or something. Better to ask a dumb question than to learn the hard way!
Ive already made the decision to stop going to that LFS. I have one 30 minutes from my house that I can get water from (and get mine tested for free) and I can get livestock from them in the future as well. I’m also going to start checking on liveaquaria as far as level of care goes too. I might buy off there at times too because the new LFS doesn’t have a super varied fish selection. I can always have them order things for me too. I’ll definitely continue asking all of my questions here though! I also joined a few Facebook pages too that I think will be helpful