Fish Kill Off

4FordFamily · Nov 30, 2016

Yeah I am so sorry but this screams velvet to me as well and looks like velvet.

Quarantine and pre treatment in copper is a pain but the resulting healthy fish and no more of this aggravation is worth it.

You ideally should have a QT set up for coral and inverts to just let it run fallow without fish for 76 days as well. Not fun but I have a small fortune in my fish and I do this. It's also the moral and ethical thing to do IMO.

That said, I certainly had to learn the hard way and for a long time. I fought it for a decade and caved. This hobby is so much more enjoyable now.

Velvet is so common in the hobby now I would say it's almost as common as ich. Ich management methods won't work with velvet.

Sorry for your losses.

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

Brew12 said:
I'm really sorry you are going through this. Such a beautiful set up.

It is frustrating because I have never had something like this ever. Kind of upsetting. I can only hope to do better QT in the future. It is frustrating because this didn't come from adding a fish.

Any new QT trends out there to be even more successful?

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

4FordFamily said:
Yeah I am so sorry but this screams velvet to me as well and looks like velvet.

Quarantine and pre treatment in copper is a pain but the resulting healthy fish and no more of this aggravation is worth it.

You ideally should have a QT set up for coral and inverts to just let it run fallow without fish for 76 days as well. Not fun but I have a small fortune in my fish and I do this. It's also the moral and ethical thing to do IMO.

That said, I certainly had to learn the hard way and for a long time. I fought it for a decade and caved. This hobby is so much more enjoyable now.

Velvet is so common in the hobby now I would say it's almost as common as ich. Ich management methods won't work with velvet.

Sorry for your losses.

I have never learned an inexpensive lesson the easy way... I'm thinking of setting up a "Display" QT tank for Fish only that way I can at least enjoy the long period of time and not force me to rush the QT...

Brew12 · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
It is frustrating because I have never had something like this ever. Kind of upsetting. I can only hope to do better QT in the future. It is frustrating because this didn't come from adding a fish.

Any new QT trends out there to be even more successful?

We will never know how it came in but coral is a possibility. It is possible it came in on fish, also. It looks like you had a very healthy system and you seem to know what you are doing when it comes to caring for the fish. It is very possible that you had ich and/or velvet in your tank but your fishes natural immunity kept it in check. All it takes is one stress event for the fishes immunity to weaken and either parasite to overwhelm the tank. Even if it is just one fish breaking down enough parasites can feed on it to overwhelm the other fish.

Hypo is great, except that there are hypo resistant forms of ich.
TTM is great, except that it doesn't take care of velvet.

I'm not a fan of trends. I'm sticking with Prazi and Coppersafe. If trends worked they would be procedures instead of fads.

I will admit that I am vulnerable to diseases coming in on corals also. I don't have a QT set up for them but I will be working on that soon. No more corals for me till I do.

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

4FordFamily said:
Yeah I am so sorry but this screams velvet to me as well and looks like velvet.

Quarantine and pre treatment in copper is a pain but the resulting healthy fish and no more of this aggravation is worth it.

You ideally should have a QT set up for coral and inverts to just let it run fallow without fish for 76 days as well. Not fun but I have a small fortune in my fish and I do this. It's also the moral and ethical thing to do IMO.

That said, I certainly had to learn the hard way and for a long time. I fought it for a decade and caved. This hobby is so much more enjoyable now.

Velvet is so common in the hobby now I would say it's almost as common as ich. Ich management methods won't work with velvet.

Sorry for your losses.

The biggest reason other than quick death is the hiding which seems like sensitivity to light. Hopefully others don't have to go through this.

On the bright side I have found a new forum with really helpful members!

4FordFamily · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
The biggest reason other than quick death is the hiding which seems like sensitivity to light. Hopefully others don't have to go through this.

Yes that's a classic symptom as well. Unfortunately, many do.

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

If I'm going to be restocking a 450, what size QT would work? I would like to get all my tangs at once so a 20 won't work.

melypr1985 · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
If I'm going to be restocking a 450, what size QT would work? I would like to get all my tangs at once so a 20 won't work.

A 55 minimum and that depends largely on the size and number of the tangs going into it. @4FordFamily has the most experience QT'ing large numbers of tangs of all the people I know.

Brew12 · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
If I'm going to be restocking a 450, what size QT would work? I would like to get all my tangs at once so a 20 won't work.

I'd use something along these lines.
https://www.katom.com/007-FG424288B...1&utm_content=Shopping - Flatware & Serveware

4FordFamily · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
If I'm going to be restocking a 450, what size QT would work? I would like to get all my tangs at once so a 20 won't work.

I had 10 (small) tangs and a few dwarf angels in a 55. It required daily water changes of 80-90% to keep everyone alive and lots of meds for 3 to 4 weeks, then every other day for a week or two, every 3rd, then every week once "cycled".

I don't really recommend that, a 125 would be better suited for that many tangs but a 55 would otherwise work for several fish for say 45 days. I would cycle it first with damsels ASAP. I know people hate that so you could allegedly use raw shrimp to cycle as well. The ammonia badge is your guide for when to make massive water changes.

In 2-3 years many of those 2-3" tangs are 4-6", so they grow fast. My purple tang has only grown maybe an inch in the past 2-3 years and my chevron perhaps an inch and a half.

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

Sorry but what is an ammonia badge ?

melypr1985 · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
Sorry but what is an ammonia badge ?

Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge. It hangs inside the tank and will give you real time readings of the ammonia and not be compromised by copper being present in the tank. The liquid kits can give off false readings when copper is present in the water making them unreliable for QTs.

Humblefish · Nov 30, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
Sorry but what is an ammonia badge ?

4FordFamily · Nov 30, 2016

melypr1985 said:
Seachem Ammonia Alert Badge. It hangs inside the tank and will give you real time readings of the ammonia and not be compromised by copper being present in the tank. The liquid kits can give off false readings when copper is present in the water making them unreliable for QTs.

Yep, this.

Anything other than very yellow is to be taken very very seriously.

I also like humblefish's photo above because it shows you the center is not really as yellow as the "safe" color you compare it to, especially if you factor in light type and angle you're looking at it. It's important to note the "safe" color by closely observing and noting what it looks like before any ammonia is possible for a good gauge.

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

So prazi pro and cupramine?

Crazieveggie · Nov 30, 2016

4FordFamily said:
I had 10 (small) tangs and a few dwarf angels in a 55. It required daily water changes of 80-90% to keep everyone alive and lots of meds for 3 to 4 weeks, then every other day for a week or two, every 3rd, then every week once "cycled".

I don't really recommend that, a 125 would be better suited for that many tangs but a 55 would otherwise work for several fish for say 45 days. I would cycle it first with damsels ASAP. I know people hate that so you could allegedly use raw shrimp to cycle as well. The ammonia badge is your guide for when to make massive water changes.

In 2-3 years many of those 2-3" tangs are 4-6", so they grow fast. My purple tang has only grown maybe an inch in the past 2-3 years and my chevron perhaps an inch and a half.

Sorry for all the questions.... 55 with a HBO filter and let it cycle? Bare bottom with some PVC hides?

Crazieveggie · Dec 10, 2016

Well... 10 days with no fish left from the apocalypse... 50 more to go.

I wish I could have saved just one to have that special fish that made it through...

melypr1985 · Dec 10, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
Well... 10 days with no fish left from the apocalypse... 50 more to go. I wish I could have saved just one to have that special fish that made it through...

I'm sorry hun. Just know that you've learned something from this and the fish you get next will be the better for it.

Humblefish · Dec 10, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
Well... 10 days with no fish left from the apocalypse... 50 more to go. I wish I could have saved just one to have that special fish that made it through...

4FordFamily · Dec 11, 2016

Crazieveggie said:
Well... 10 days with no fish left from the apocalypse... 50 more to go. I wish I could have saved just one to have that special fish that made it through...

I would wait full 76. I know it is no fun but if you're going to do it do it right...