Fishless cycle.

[robbrouse]

Been working on a cycle for almost 60 days.

It's has the reading of 0, ammonia, nitrate twice, I dose again to make sure all is fine and it spikes the ammonia and nitrites again.
I'm beyond frustrated. I have sued the pure ammonia on about 9 tanks, only one saltwater.

What about Instant Ocean Bio-Spira worth the money will it help?

I've sold m,y 56 that I'm upgrading to a 75 from and the lady wants her tank.

And ideas?

 

[beaslbob]

Add macro algaes wait a week then add a mail molly. And not add food for a week.

forget the ammonia dosing.


my .02

 

[robbrouse]

So kill a fish? I though most people agreed not to harm fish in the process?

 

[beaslbob]

So kill a fish?

Absolutely not!

I though most people agreed not to harm fish in the process?

As do I. the macros will provide an excellent environment for the fish even if there was absolutely not a single aerobic bacteria present.

The macros consume the ammonia directly preventing spikes and the fish will thrive in the low co2 high oxygen environment.

I also don't add food for a week and the fish is constantly picking at rocks and macro feeding off any nusiance algae and pods.

 

[robbrouse]

What type of algae would you suggest?

 

[beaslbob]

What type of algae would you suggest?

Chaetomorphia in some kind of container as a refugium.

For reef type environments halimeda which is a hard algae the requires calcium and higher light.

Caulerpa profilera is a good lower light fast grower but is eaten (with chaetomorphia) by fish like tangs and crabs for that matter. Some report it adversly affects corals if that is a consideration.

on my old 55g I just used egg crate to partition the tank so the back 3" was a refugium and the display the rest of the tank in front. The chaeto, caulerpa and pods thrived in the back 3" and fed the tangs in front.

Of course there is always a seperate refugium/sump or an algae turf scrubber but those require much more work.

my .02

 

[robbrouse]

I do have a sump.. So maybe get some Chaetomorphia and then try the molly. At this point nothing can hurt. I've done the pure ammonia thing several times nad nevwer lsot a fish, but they have been smaller tanks. My 75 is giving me nothing but issues, Really getting frustrating.

 

[Mrfresh]

It's possible not to cycle. When I first set up my 90 I never had an ammonia spike and I used live sand and live rock.


A little more back round info might help.
Tank size
Sump size
Live rock lbs
Sand lbs
R u skimming! Ext

 

[beaslbob]

I do have a sump.. So maybe get some Chaetomorphia and then try the molly. At this point nothing can hurt. I've done the pure ammonia thing several times nad nevwer lsot a fish, but they have been smaller tanks. My 75 is giving me nothing but issues, Really getting frustrating.

put the chato in the sump and add a 20w 6500k spot lamp.

be sure to prevent the chaeto from getting into the sump and pump area or have a spong filter on the intake.

just to experiment after the chaeto has grown a few days try the ammonia again. See if the ammonia spike is much less then before.

But if you can get a male molly to live a few weeks that would be a very good sign. Don't feed the molly for the first week.

Best of luck and best tank ever.


still just my .02

 

[robbrouse]

mrfresh,,

Tank size 75 gallon, sump is a 20 gallon.
I started off with 60 pounds of dead rock and added about 20 pounds from the fish store and added about 15 pounds from my 56 gallon thats been running for over a year. I added 4 cups of sand from the 56 gallon and about an 2" bed of live sand. As far as the pounds of sand it's about 70 pounds of live sand and 20 pounds of dead and 4 cups from my 56 gallon tank,

I plan on moving the skimmer when the new tank is cycled.

I started off and set the tank up and let it run for 48 hours to make sure all was well. I dosed PURE ACE Ammonia until the tank was reading 5 PPM... After this I added enough to keep it at this level. When nitrites spiked I keep the ammonia the same. Twice nitrites have come down to .25 or so. I have tested with 3 different test kits. It seems all is well then nitrites and ammonia went back up.

I have cycled a 8 fresh waster tanks ranging from 10 gallons to 90 gallons. and my 56 gallon slat water tank with the pure ammonia method. So I think I've become pretty good at it, but my 75 gallon salt lat has giving me nothing but grief.

It's been years since I've used fish to cycle and dont approve of this method.

 

[Palting]

mrfresh,,

Tank size 75 gallon, sump is a 20 gallon.
I started off with 60 pounds of dead rock and added about 20 pounds from the fish store and added about 15 pounds from my 56 gallon thats been running for over a year. I added 4 cups of sand from the 56 gallon and about an 2" bed of live sand. As far as the pounds of sand it's about 70 pounds of live sand and 20 pounds of dead and 4 cups from my 56 gallon tank,

I plan on moving the skimmer when the new tank is cycled.

I started off and set the tank up and let it run for 48 hours to make sure all was well. I dosed PURE ACE Ammonia until the tank was reading 5 PPM... After this I added enough to keep it at this level. When nitrites spiked I keep the ammonia the same. Twice nitrites have come down to .25 or so. I have tested with 3 different test kits. It seems all is well then nitrites and ammonia went back up.

I have cycled a 8 fresh waster tanks ranging from 10 gallons to 90 gallons. and my 56 gallon slat water tank with the pure ammonia method. So I think I've become pretty good at it, but my 75 gallon salt lat has giving me nothing but grief.

It's been years since I've used fish to cycle and dont approve of this method.

Let me make sure I got this right. You added pure ammonia to a tank where some of the rock was live, some of the sand was live, both the live rock and live sand came from a marine tank? The ammonia levels spiked, followed by a nitrite spike, then both ammonia and nitrite went down to 0, but nitrate always stayed 0?

If I did get it straight, then your tank is cycled, my friend. Cycled means you have a full spectrum of bacteria, from the aerobic that process ammonia and nitrite, to the anaerobic that process nitrate to nitrogen gas. Here's my reasoning. What happened to your ammonia and nitrite spike? The aerobic nitrifying bacteria processed it to nitrate. Why was there no nitrate spike? You had sufficient anaerobic denitrifying bacteria from the live rock and sand that converted the nitrate to nitrogen as rapidly as it was produced.

Add your CUC and a fish or two. They will not die, IMO your tank is ready for them. Just start slow, increase the bioload a little at a time to allow the biofiltration to catch up.

 

[robbrouse]

No Nitrate is off the charts like 150+PPM and will not change, Nitrite and Ammonia bounds all over the place. The last 3 days Ammonia and Nitrite have not been at 0...

 

[RiverRat]

Hi.................I ran a fishless cycle on two different tanks. It was very easy. I place a shrimp (like one you buy a the grocery store) in a container that I cut holes in. I put the container in the aquarium with dry sand, dry rock, and just a little bit of live rock to seed (you could also add Bio-Spira). Now, you just watch the shrimp rot. The rotting shrimp will release ammonia to feed the bacteria, this is then converted to nitrite, which is then converted to nitrate (I'm sure you already know that process though, just wanted to mention it to be thorough). So, Ammonia should be zero and nitrite should be zero in a cycled tank, while nitrate should be kept as low as possible. Nitrate reduction is mainly your responsibility through water changes (nitrate can also be reduced through use of macroalgae, usually in a refugium). The fishless cycle took me a week and a half at most (some people have even had faster).

 

[bigblue]

Yes, seems your tank is cycled, time to add your babies ... just be sure not to add too many at once. Remember that in the world of the invisible people (bacteria), it takes time to adjust to the bioload your tank will generate. For your size, 4 at a time. And wait a few months to add corals.
Good luck

 

[Dave3112]

So if you added that much live rock and sand along with the dry stuff, why did you add ammonia? I don't understand the reasoning. The bacteria on/in the live stuff would colonize the dry stuff fairly quickly. You would experience some die off of organisms on/in the live rock and sand which would cause the ammonia to rise and the bacteria still left would convert it to nitrite then nitrate and bring it into balance and multiply on the "dry" surfaces.

 

[robbrouse]

How is the tank cycled if it will not hold 0 for ammonia and nitrites?

 

[robbrouse]

Dave3112.. I added the ammonia do to the I wanted to keep a source in there to keep the cycle going.

First tank I did after the pure ammonia cycle I added the full bio load for the tank and hand nothing die for well over a year. Tested water every day for a week and then every few days.

Has ant one here even do an pure ammonia cycle?

 

[Palting]

How is the tank cycled if it will not hold 0 for ammonia and nitrites?

Again, trying to clarify. Your nitrates are way up and never go down. Your ammonia and nitrites do go down to 0, but go up again when you dose pure ammonia? Is that what's happening?

 

[Dave3112]

Ok. I think I see what you are talking about. But I don't think it was needed. If you are still reading ammonia and nitrite it's not fully cycled and I wouldn't add fish. I would take bobs advice and add some macro and test again in a week and see what you've got.

 

[robbrouse]

My nitrate are holding at 150+PPM. Way off the charts.
The ammonia stays at 0PPM for a while then climbs slightly.
The nitrites has reached 0PPM twice, then I added ammonia and get it to 4 or 5 PPM and the nitrites hit .25 or .50 for a day or so then hit 3-5 PPM.
When I added ammonia I check ever 60 minutes until it's between 3-5 and then I stop.

After I get it to that point I want 24 hours (give or take 30 minutes for work scheduler) and test again.