Florida banning

The_Paradox · May 10, 2023

GatorGreg said:
Keep that line of thinking. Some government rat somewhere is plotting on something you care about as we speak and you don’t even realize it.

My paychecks come from OPM

paragrouper · May 10, 2023

GatorGreg said:
I bow hunt and I’ve always wanted to go stick some pigs in Texas

Winter is best. Lack of forage pushes the pigs to look for livestock feed to poach. You’ll also find them frequenting deer feeders.

GatorGreg · May 10, 2023

paragrouper said:
Winter is best. Lack of forage pushes the pigs to look for livestock feed to poach. You’ll also find them frequenting deer feeders.

I’m about to have to get busy cutting some trails in my new spots. Hang a few stands and start getting stuff ready before it gets too hot. Then I’ll go back in July and clean it up one more time. We’re spending a week in Tensas this year. I’m trying to stick Bullwinkle lol

|Frank| · May 10, 2023

https://myfwc.com/about/commission/commission-meetings/may-2023/
I tried to send in something but the page was made private. I found this page. The itinerary for this is at the bottom and it’s concerning as well. FWC staff wants this passed asap and to have no public comment on the matter.

|Frank| · May 10, 2023

|Frank| said:
https://myfwc.com/about/commission/commission-meetings/may-2023/
I tried to send in something but the page was made private. I found this page. The itinerary for this is at the bottom and it’s concerning as well. FWC staff wants this passed asap and to have no public comment on the matter.

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

GatorGreg said:
Keep that line of thinking. Some government rat somewhere is plotting on something you care about as we speak and you don’t even realize it.

Yep it's a slippery slope from tegus and pythons to your favorite coral. Anyone see that article about Xenia in Venezuela? They will use that as an excuse. Don't kid yourselves they will ban whatever some transplant Karen thinks you shouldn't own. Earlier someone said a couple of thousand people complaining about the reptile ban, it was over a 100,000 FWC didn't bat an eye and it wasn't a law it was a regulation.

|Frank| · May 10, 2023

I’m really curious how Florida vendors are feeling about this. In another post someone said they would likely move. I’m wondering what the little guy who doesn’t have the resources to move thinks. All the people who would be laid off of a job. All the revenue lost not only from businesses but from the people working at your LFS. All the conventions and revenue that brings to Florida. It’s just flat out dumb if this happens.

Stomatopods17 · May 10, 2023

The suppliers moving is one thing. Us losing the many species that are perfectly abundant from florida is another.

I can't imagine how long it'd take to recoup live rock when most of the live rock supplier got it from there or aqua cultured it. That'd set the hobby itself back quite a few years if there becomes a shortage before the gulf gets more attention from georgia and texas, and funneling it all in the gulf is equally concerning as we'll deplete it even faster and the slippery slope of regulations stopping gulf collecting, invasive species, etc.

That being said I don't see any concern rn besides fear of the slippery slope this won't be well managed, looks to me its mostly double downing on the restricted species rather than banning aquariums. Holy thursday massacre AFAIK (last I kept up with it was when they released the body cam footage) wasn't even a violation of the regulations, it was a miss-identification followed by lack of communication and completely off procedures for if the scenario was even correct for them, they didn't even do it right or humanely. The main concern in relation to that is them potentially killing your dog because it looks like a dog face pufferfish, cause they did miss-ID the snakes and they were legally kept as well (hopefully that's still true, again I only pay attention to it for about a week.)

|Frank| · May 10, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
The suppliers moving is one thing. Us losing the many species that are perfectly abundant from florida is another.

I can't imagine how long it'd take to recoup live rock when most of the live rock supplier got it from there or aqua cultured it. That'd set the hobby itself back quite a few years if there becomes a shortage before the gulf gets more attention from georgia and texas, and funneling it all in the gulf is equally concerning as we'll deplete it even faster.

That being said I don't see any concern rn besides fear of the slippery slope this won't be well managed, looks to me its mostly double downing on the restricted species rather than banning aquariums. Holy thursday massacre AFAIK (last I kept up with it was when they released the body cam footage) wasn't even a violation of the regulations, it was a miss-identification followed by lack of communication and completely off procedures for if the scenario was even correct for them, they didn't even do it right or humanely. The main concern in relation to that is them potentially killing your dog because it looks like a dog face pufferfish, cause they did miss-ID the snakes and they were legally kept as well (hopefully that's still true, again I only pay attention to it for about a week.)

Yep they messed up big time, they were euthanizing pythons and killed the guys legal boa.
I wonder if they keep things that are in state legal and just ban anything foreign?

GatorGreg · May 10, 2023

So you can’t keep a certain fish in a glass box but your neighbor can legally have a vicious kid mauling dog? Awesome

“B…bbb…bbbbut it’s HoW yOu RaIsE tHeM”.

Lol

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
The suppliers moving is one thing. Us losing the many species that are perfectly abundant from florida is another.

I can't imagine how long it'd take to recoup live rock when most of the live rock supplier got it from there or aqua cultured it. That'd set the hobby itself back quite a few years if there becomes a shortage before the gulf gets more attention from georgia and texas, and funneling it all in the gulf is equally concerning as we'll deplete it even faster and the slippery slope of regulations stopping gulf collecting, invasive species, etc.

That being said I don't see any concern rn besides fear of the slippery slope this won't be well managed, looks to me its mostly double downing on the restricted species rather than banning aquariums. Holy thursday massacre AFAIK (last I kept up with it was when they released the body cam footage) wasn't even a violation of the regulations, it was a miss-identification followed by lack of communication and completely off procedures for if the scenario was even correct for them, they didn't even do it right or humanely. The main concern in relation to that is them potentially killing your dog because it looks like a dog face pufferfish, cause they did miss-ID the snakes and they were legally kept as well (hopefully that's still true, again I only pay attention to it for about a week.)

FWC stonewalled that guy until the time limit ran out then showed up unannounced. They acted in bad faith from the beginning. Don't think for one second that they care about jobs or economic/environmental impact. If they really cared your cats and dogs would be on the blacklist as well since they kill way more native species than reptiles. Ever seen a snake eat a gopher tortoise? I've seen dogs do it. Of course the worst invasive impact to those are humans, but because gopher turtles are fewer so are indigos and diamond backs.

MnFish1 · May 10, 2023

lopez052308 said:
For my people in Florida, opinions?

The reason they are saying this relates to stupid idiots releasing lioinfish etc. And or Cichlids.

ninjamyst · May 10, 2023

legionofdoon said:
Tell that to the reptile guys. Look up the Holy Thursday massacre. FWC does whatever they want.

Did that cause a bunch of reptile stores to shut down? Did that cause reptile shows and conventions to no longer host events in Florida? Did that cause thousands of jobs lost in retail reptile industry?

Those are legit questions because I am not a reptile guy and quick Google about Holy Thursday massacre talks about killing of a bunch of snakes for one guy, not the apocalypse of reptile industry ...

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

ninjamyst said:
Did that cause a bunch of reptile stores to shut down? Did that cause reptile shows and conventions to no longer host events in Florida? Did that cause thousands of jobs lost in retail reptile industry?

Those are legit questions because I am not a reptile guy and quick Google about Holy Thursday massacre talks about killing of a bunch of snakes for one guy, not the apocalypse of reptile industry ...

Yes it most certainly effected local stores and reptile shows. Go visit one and ask. Did it kill thousands of jobs probably not it's a niche market just like this hobby. I know it harmed the big name breeders. BTW stop using Google it's the most curated and biased search engine ever.

GatorGreg · May 10, 2023

legionofdoon said:
Yes it most certainly effected local stores and reptile shows. Go visit one and ask. Did it kill thousands of jobs probably not it's a niche market just like this hobby. I know it harmed the big name breeders. BTW stop using Google it's the most curated and biased search engine ever.

Bingo

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

MnFish1 said:
The reason they are saying this relates to stupid idiots releasing lioinfish etc. And or Cichlids.

Mayan cichlid bad... peacock bass lol.

Stomatopods17 · May 10, 2023

legionofdoon said:
FWC stonewalled that guy until the time limit ran out then showed up unannounced. They acted in bad faith from the beginning. Don't think for one second that they care about jobs or economic/environmental impact. If they really cared your cats and dogs would be on the blacklist as well since they kill way more native species than reptiles. Ever seen a snake eat a gopher tortoise? I've seen dogs do it. Of course the worst invasive impact to those are humans, but because gopher turtles are fewer so are indigos and diamond backs.

Absolutely.

...and I bet they ignore how many species have gone extinct/critically endangered due to cats but they're so culturally ingrained they wouldn't even attempt it but will attempt anyone with a venomous reptile or fish because 'its not normal'.

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

We used to catch sailfin mollies for bait when I was a kid, funny thing is they looked way better than the crap people buy in the stores and online now. Apparently they aren't native either but bass love them.

Stomatopods17 · May 10, 2023

ninjamyst said:
Did that cause a bunch of reptile stores to shut down? Did that cause reptile shows and conventions to no longer host events in Florida? Did that cause thousands of jobs lost in retail reptile industry?

Those are legit questions because I am not a reptile guy and quick Google about Holy Thursday massacre talks about killing of a bunch of snakes for one guy, not the apocalypse of reptile industry ...

Yes and no...

Cause the event pretty much proved to everyone FWC doesn't know what they're doing and can make up regulations on the spot. Not to mention it could really put reptiles in a bad light as there's many individuals that simply hate snakes either for fear or safety and that misinformation spread could hurt the industry.

If you're someone who's selling reptiles, but some literal who walks in, says 'That looks like X!' they've proven they can be completely looney and proceed with ruining your business. It caused everyone to feel insecure about owning reptiles cause it went from 'we'll following regulations' to a doomsday clock to them cause there's no backup/support from the government being just stupid and no one can keep up with tomorrow's newest regulation for a pet they've owned for 10+ years.

Like the guy doing everything right shouldn't have had ANY worry, and got randomly put in a position where... well anyone in hobby's worst nightmare occured. There's even a quote from I think the governer that eased everyone's insecurities confirming that 'pets are pets, new rules won't affect them it'll prevent you from getting new ones or breeding them'.... instantly that was deconfirmed by FWC's actions.

legionofdoon · May 10, 2023

Stomatopods17 said:
Absolutely.

...and I bet they ignore how many species have gone extinct/critically endangered due to cats but they're so culturally ingrained they wouldn't even attempt it but will attempt anyone with a venomous reptile or fish because 'its not normal'.

Just wait until more pocket poodles start getting snatched up by gators and coyotes, I bet you'll see bounties come back.