Florida banning

I will say it now. - petitions don't matter. This is similar to the Hawaii ban - except it FL. I posted this months ago - there are people out there that say (paraphrased) - aquariums are not good. When will everyone realize that there's always a special interest group - that wants to kill this hobby ? https://www.peta.org/issues/animal-companion-issues/cruel-practices/fish-tanks/
I don’t know if this is completely accurate, Florida is a very red state, so not necessarily a good comparison. There is a major invasive species issue as has been said and I think that’s a much bigger driving factor, but I could be wrong
 
If you had a newly listed animal as a personal pet, you were able to get it chipped and keep it as a pet for its remaining natural lifespan. You could not obtain another animal even though it was to be a personal pet.

If you were a breeder you were required to dispose of your inventory by a certain date, by either sale of inventory out of state, removing your breeders out of state, euthanizing yourself or turning into state to be euthanized.

Situations where personal pets were euthanized by mistake were fortunately rare, but when it did occur it showed the total ineptitude of those charged with carrying out these ridiculous rules. Realize that misidentification is frequent when an untrained individual is faced with similar looking species/breeds. (Huskys, Malmutes, “Eskimo dogs”, and low level wolf hybrids are unfortunately often confused.)

The State itself is the worst offender here….introducing Peacock Bass for sport and predation in an effort to reduce populations of other intentionally introduced species. Releasing deadly Bufos toads to eat pests on sugar cane.

Genetic testing has shown that a tank full of Volitan lion fish that ended up in Florida bay when the wholesalers building was destroyed by Hurricane Andrew are responsible for the majority of lion fish now found in the Atlantic Ocean and Caribbean Sea. (Realize this occurred before CB)

Unfortunately the media loves to sensationalize everything and the scarier the story the better it plays. Giant invasive animals eating everything they can catch has been a tried and true B horror staple for longer than I have been around. Now we have real pictures of Burmese pythons eating alligators, the proverbial kings of the Everglades. Monster Nile Crocs cruising the waters near Tanimani Trail. Other Crocodilians known to be breeding and thriving on the various Army bases. African Rock Pythons, Green and yellow Anacondas, and Reticulated Pythons allegedly hybridizing themselves into super aggressive, super sized, cold tolerant monsters referred to as Super Snakes. 5 ft plus Nile Monitors and various species of Tegus with multiple colonies throughout the state. Let’s not discuss everyone’s favorite chicken of the trees and it’s related species that make a group of playschool kids on speed with open buckets of stain, paint, and indelible markers seem like high end maids.

Since it is so difficult to extirpate invasives once they gain a foothold, the only option is to stop them first. Whether it’s through sterilization, removing the animals from the environment or super strict protocols, there really aren’t many other ways to stop this scourge.

I look in my backyard on most days only to find 1 or 2 native reptiles. I go to the canal down the street and 75% of the fish are fish I used to keep from South America. There are also 4 different species of Iguanas, brown and green Basilisk, curly tails, and other non native species thriving there. (Skipping the birds)

Fortunately, there aren’t as many invasive marine fish, but even that has been changing. I have personally seen (Hawaiian) Yellow tangs, Achilles tang, Sailfin tang, Emperor Angel, and more when diving the east coast. Even better, most of these are single specimens who are caught and removed within a relatively short period of time.
Man after reading your post I think we should nuke the glades and start over.
 
Just because you breed an animal doesn’t mean they aren’t your pets! Many of my friends are high end breeders and they love all their animals!!
Apologies. I’m sure he had names for all of his hundreds of pets, and the Branch Dividians were just a church. Call a spade a spade. He was the puppy mill of reptile breeders. If you read the back story he had lots of options up to the point he didn’t. It’s too easy to forget in any heated discussion that there are three sides to every story.
 
As a non American I can say that this is the most American thing I ever saw. Dont people have bigger issues than this?
I don’t see why would someone go chasing reptiles and fish in glass cages.
Exactly!! lol.
 
As a non American I can say that this is the most American thing I ever saw. Dont people have bigger issues than this?
I don’t see why would someone go chasing reptiles and fish in glass cages.
They are not chasing reptiles in glass cages - its the reptiles not in glass cages they are worried about.
 
As a non American I can say that this is the most American thing I ever saw. Dont people have bigger issues than this?
I don’t see why would someone go chasing reptiles and fish in glass cages.
as a non-americas - PERHAPA your comments make no sense. There are multiple areas in the country into which invasive species have been released - with horrible consequences. NO offense to you - but people here have left multiple species into the wild which should not have been - that have been taken over.
 
Their care for the environment goes out the window when there's money being waived in their face.
No kidding I grew up in Palm Beach county. There used to be a public library on the water in downtown WPB beautiful spot now it's gone. Most of Palm Beach Gardens was at one time owned by the MacArthur family. There used to be a public park surrounding lake Catherine (named for his wife) it was supposed to stay a publicly accessable park it's now a Divosta development. Jupiter is becoming unrecognizable. You used to be able to see the beach from US 1 now condos everywhere.
 
Do they have any plan in place to allow for the the general public or interested parties (like wholesalers or LFS's) to request a study to get a new species approved or denied for the whitelist? (Preferably an option that might actually get results within a year or so and that wouldn't cost a small fortune?)

Since a petition to stop the whitelisting effort will likely be ignored due to Florida's rampant invasive species issues, it seems to me like a petition to setup some reasonable pathway to add species to the whitelist may be the best option for the hobby in Florida at this point. (Granted, this petition would probably be ignored too, but it's the best suggestion I've got at this point.)

>>>>>>>>>>

With regards to cats and dogs:
- Responsible cat breeders refuse to sell to people who plan to let their cats outside without a leash in large part because of how damaging cats are to the local wildlife; keeping cats inside is safer both for the environment and the cats, and I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't legislation to fine people or even rehome their pets if their cats are outside unsupervised repeatedly.

- Dog behavior does seem to be mostly decided by how they are raised/trained, but breed does play some role in the behavior as well (for example, most Chihuahuas are murderous little balls or rage, but they're too small to do any real damage; most Pitbulls are fine throughout their life, but sometimes they seem to snap for no reason after years of being totally fine). Knowing that how they're raised is one of if not the main factor, however, and living currently in an area with a ridiculously high number of dog owners, I can honestly say that most dog owners should probably never be allowed to own a dog; or at least not a dog bigger than one of the smallest dog breeds (like Chihuahuas, Pomeranians, Shih Tzus, etc.).

A ton of dogs I see are just kept chained up in a tiny pen all day, literally every day with little to no social interaction, training, exercise, etc. My wife and I have taken to counting the number of off-leash dogs that we see on walks around town with no owners in sight as they just roam the streets and parks freely (it's usually around 3 dogs per ~1.5 hour outing). I had to scare (IIRC) a bulldog mix off from attacking my wife and kid on one family outing while the dog's owner family was there (the dog didn't listen to the kids at all and the parents were visibly ignoring it from the other side of the lake), and in another incident animal control didn't even show up when they were called about a dog terrorizing a bunch of different kids at a park. So, with all of that in mind, I have to agree that some kind of legislation on dogs is would probably also be warranted.

As mentioned, though, it's extremely unlikely any sort of regulations would be passed for cats and dogs just because of their popularity as pets.
 
Do they have any plan in place to allow for the the general public or interested parties (like wholesalers or LFS's) to request a study to get a new species approved or denied for the whitelist? (Preferably an option that might actually get results within a year or so and that wouldn't cost a small fortune?)

Since a petition to stop the whitelisting effort will likely be ignored due to Florida's rampant invasive species issues, it seems to me like a petition to setup some reasonable pathway to add species to the whitelist may be the best option for the hobby in Florida at this point. (Granted, this petition would probably be ignored too, but it's the best suggestion I've got at this point.)

>>>>>>>>>>

With regards to cats and dogs:
- Responsible cat breeders refuse to sell to people who plan to let their cats outside without a leash in large part because of how damaging cats are to the local wildlife; keeping cats inside is safer both for the environment and the cats, and I'm actually kind of surprised there isn't legislation to fine people or even rehome their pets if their cats are outside unsupervised repeatedly.

- Dog behavior does seem to be mostly decided by how they are raised/trained, but breed does play some role in the behavior as well (for example, most Chihuahuas are murderous little balls or rage, but they're too small to do any real damage; most Pitbulls are fine throughout their life, but sometimes they seem to snap for no reason after years of being totally fine). Knowing that how they're raised is one of if not the main factor, however, and living currently in an area with a ridiculously high number of dog owners, I can honestly say that most dog owners should probably never be allowed to own a dog; or at least not a dog bigger than one of the smallest dog breeds (like Chihuahuas, Pomeranians, Shih Tzus, etc.).

A ton of dogs I see are just kept chained up in a tiny pen all day, literally every day with little to no social interaction, training, exercise, etc. My wife and I have taken to counting the number of off-leash dogs that we see on walks around town with no owners in sight as they just roam the streets and parks freely (it's usually around 3 dogs per ~1.5 hour outing). I had to scare (IIRC) a bulldog mix off from attacking my wife and kid on one family outing while the dog's owner family was there (the dog didn't listen to the kids at all and the parents were visibly ignoring it from the other side of the lake), and in another incident animal control didn't even show up when they were called about a dog terrorizing a bunch of different kids at a park. So, with all of that in mind, I have to agree that some kind of legislation on dogs is would probably also be warranted.

As mentioned, though, it's extremely unlikely any sort of regulations would be passed for cats and dogs just because of their popularity as pets.
As a Surgical Nurse your comment on small dogs being too small to cause damage is highly inaccurate there are an Astonishing number of people every year of all ages that undergo reconstructive facial surgery from a small dog normally one that they are familiar with mauling them in the face. Same with cat attacks on owners, their family and friends. Most cities do have off leash laws for cats and dogs. As for dogs of all breeds who as you say “snap” it’s normally an underlying health condition that leads to the dog becoming aggressive like brain tumors, which is common in many pure breeds especially if the breeders don’t fully understand genetics and the dog is the results of many generations of inbreeding. Good breeders will source their animals from different states or even countries to avoid this.
 
Apologies. I’m sure he had names for all of his hundreds of pets, and the Branch Dividians were just a church. Call a spade a spade. He was the puppy mill of reptile breeders. If you read the back story he had lots of options up to the point he didn’t. It’s too easy to forget in any heated discussion that there are three sides to every story.
I understand your thinking I was not directly speaking to the breeder in the provided story and yes I understand the difference between a puppy mill and a reputable breeder that being said there are good loving breeders being affected by this yes he had other options like turn them over to be euthanized, move them out of state as a loving pet owner if my pets become illegal after I have adopted them the government is going to have to kill me to euthanize them. Not everyone can just relocate or even have good
Connections to rehome their animals out of state. But for ***** and giggles say the government decides to ban all fossil fuel cars and electric vehicles become mandatory you cannot afford 80k to replace your car and another 80k to replace your spouses car plus 80k for cars for each of your teenage children. Now you have to upgrade the electrical service in your home to charge all of those EV’s oops that’s another 60k and you have 60 days to accomplish all of this as the government will be coming to crush your old petrol vehicle at that time oh and if you still owe money on your old petrol cars you have to still pay those payments because no dealership will take them in on trade. It’s the same kind of government over reach. Our Government doesn’t have the right to tell us what we can and cannot own nothing in the Constitution gives them that power. They constantly use implied powers which is a very slippery slope yet, “we the people” continue to let them control us instead of us controlling them we no longer have a government “of the people for the people” we have a dictatorial ruling class who is bought and paid for not by the voter but special interests groups and corporations.
 
As a Surgical Nurse your comment on small dogs being too small to cause damage is highly inaccurate there are an Astonishing number of people every year of all ages that undergo reconstructive facial surgery from a small dog normally one that they are familiar with mauling them in the face. Same with cat attacks on owners, their family and friends.
Fair enough - just in my anecdotal (and therefore small sample biased) experience I’ve never heard of anyone being seriously hurt by small dogs or cats (unless they tripped over them or got an infection from a scratch), but I’ve heard of a lot of people needing seriously medical attention (and sometimes a burial plot) as a result of medium to large dogs.
Most cities do have off leash laws for cats and dogs.
I’ve only seen cities with (literally entirely unenforced) dog leash laws (again, anecdotal sample size, maybe they’re enforced somewhere else), so I’m actually kind of glad to hear some places have them for cats (at least if they’re actually enforced to any degree).
As for dogs of all breeds who as you say “snap” it’s normally an underlying health condition that leads to the dog becoming aggressive like brain tumors, which is common in many pure breeds especially if the breeders don’t fully understand genetics and the dog is the results of many generations of inbreeding. Good breeders will source their animals from different states or even countries to avoid this.
Knowing how dogs react to illnesses, I could definitely see that. I’ve only personally heard of the behavior in pitbulls, so it’s interesting to know it can happen in other breeds as well.

Again, as mentioned, as long they’re raised right, most dogs are totally fine (exceptions for Chihuahuas); it’s just been my experience that most owners either can’t or don’t put in the time and effort to raise them right.
 
so glad i live in the UK where they would never do this
Are you sure about that?
tenor (4).gif
 
Fair enough - just in my anecdotal (and therefore small sample biased) experience I’ve never heard of anyone being seriously hurt by small dogs or cats (unless they tripped over them or got an infection from a scratch), but I’ve heard of a lot of people needing seriously medical attention (and sometimes a burial plot) as a result of medium to large dogs.

I’ve only seen cities with (literally entirely unenforced) dog leash laws (again, anecdotal sample size, maybe they’re enforced somewhere else), so I’m actually kind of glad to hear some places have them for cats (at least if they’re actually enforced to any degree).

Knowing how dogs react to illnesses, I could definitely see that. I’ve only personally heard of the behavior in pitbulls, so it’s interesting to know it can happen in other breeds as well.

Again, as mentioned, as long they’re raised right, most dogs are totally fine (exceptions for Chihuahuas); it’s just been my experience that most owners either can’t or don’t put in the time and effort to raise them right.
I agree most people cannot take adequate care of themselves nor any other living entity. My wife is an elementary teacher and has been for the past teen years and each class she has gets harder and harder to handle because children’s parents are so disconnected and don’t want to put in any effort to raise their children. She has seen kids in 3rd and 4th grade with NÓ intellectual disabilities that are still wearing diapers. She has parents who refuse to help their students with any form of school work talking things as simple as ABC’s, addition and subtraction. We spend upwards of 7-10k on supplies for the classroom every year everything from cleaning supplies, class materials, to changes of clothes. We are lucky that I am retired Army and still work full time because a lot of my wife’s income goes to the classroom. My city here in Texas has an active animal control department, and a new state of the art facility for keeping and rehoming if needed. The reason you hear more about the large breed attacks on the news and what not is because it feeds into people fear and fear sales. People would laugh at a 250lbs man who had his face eaten by a ****zu but it does happen, toddlers and infants are the main ones who suffer from little dog mauling a because the parents are ignorant and try and shove the baby in the dogs face when they bring it home and the dog is naturally jealous and wham baby get mauled. Toddlers walking with food in their hands and the little dog decides it wants the food because it’s never had to share instant mauling. In almost every circumstance of a person being mauled by an animal the fault belongs to the owner of the animal.
 
I understand your thinking I was not directly speaking to the breeder in the provided story and yes I understand the difference between a puppy mill and a reputable breeder that being said there are good loving breeders being affected by this yes he had other options like turn them over to be euthanized, move them out of state as a loving pet owner if my pets become illegal after I have adopted them the government is going to have to kill me to euthanize them. Not everyone can just relocate or even have good
Connections to rehome their animals out of state. But for ***** and giggles say the government decides to ban all fossil fuel cars and electric vehicles become mandatory you cannot afford 80k to replace your car and another 80k to replace your spouses car plus 80k for cars for each of your teenage children. Now you have to upgrade the electrical service in your home to charge all of those EV’s oops that’s another 60k and you have 60 days to accomplish all of this as the government will be coming to crush your old petrol vehicle at that time oh and if you still owe money on your old petrol cars you have to still pay those payments because no dealership will take them in on trade. It’s the same kind of government over reach. Our Government doesn’t have the right to tell us what we can and cannot own nothing in the Constitution gives them that power. They constantly use implied powers which is a very slippery slope yet, “we the people” continue to let them control us instead of us controlling them we no longer have a government “of the people for the people” we have a dictatorial ruling class who is bought and paid for not by the voter but special interests groups and corporations.
I’m not disagreeing with any of that in theory. In practice though we are all just tiny cogs in a massive machine. The upshot of my points were, this is not a hill I plan to die on. Is it messed up… sure. Not going to risk my livelihood/wellbeing/stress over fish though.
 
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The reason you hear more about the large breed attacks on the news and what not is because it feeds into people fear and fear sales.
Definitely true, but every instance where I’ve personally known the person involved it has been with medium to large breeds (again, anecdotal sample size bias).
My city here in Texas has an active animal control department, and a new state of the art facility for keeping and rehoming if needed.
Genuinely glad to hear this, because the lack of proper animal control in my home state has been terrible these past few years (the animal problems weren’t nearly this prevalent 10-20 years ago here). Pretty much everyone has been begging for something to be done about it, but nothing seems to be changing.
People would laugh at a 250lbs man who had his face eaten by a ****zu but it does happen, toddlers and infants are the main ones who suffer from little dog mauling a because the parents are ignorant and try and shove the baby in the dogs face when they bring it home and the dog is naturally jealous and wham baby get mauled. Toddlers walking with food in their hands and the little dog decides it wants the food because it’s never had to share instant mauling.
And, this right here makes me want to rescind my previous statement about making an exception for small dogs. Thankfully, my family members have been savvy enough about dog dos and don’ts to avoid any issues like this.
 
I’m not disagreeing with any of that in theory. In practice though we are all just tiny cogs in a massive machine. The upshot of my points were, this is not a hill I plan to die on. Is it Fubar… sure. Not going to risk my livelihood/wellbeing/stress over fish though.
Anyone that has seen war knows that it’s horrible as a Combat Vet trust me I don’t want that at all but sometimes blood has to be shed to restore the balance. I know this will be a very unpopular statement but if you truly study the Civil War you will see it was not about freeing the slaves it was about controlling the vote because the crowded northern states were beginning to loose majority vote to the less populated states due to the 3/5’s compromise that’s when the Northern states began arguing that slaves were property and shouldn’t count towards delegates. That’s what caused the Succession of the Southern States. The North then got ticked because they needed the fields in the south for revenue that’s what started the war. It wasn’t until the North saw that they were losing the war that the Emancipation Proclimation was penned Gettysburg is looked at as the turning point for the North yet most historians fail to see that it was after this victory that came after a long list of defeats that the Emancipation Proclamation was released to bolster the Union ranks with newly free’d slaves. Even though the Confederacy lost the war still brought about change that ultimately leveled the delegate debate. The nonsense of the political establishment of our time is ballot harvesting politicians on both sides of the isle participate in this tactic so in essence these politicians are buying their seat in legislature. We need to cap campaign spending, cap fundraising, and establish term limits on every political position from local to federal these positions were meant to be voluntary not paid and you shouldn’t be able to come in to congress as a bartender with 100k in student loans and become a millionaire on a 275k a year salary.
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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