Flow in sump

[ElectrumGuy]

I am having some issues regulating the flow in my sump since turning on my mechanical filtration and skimmer. I have a ball valve between:

1. My display tank and my sump
2. My return pump (Eheim 1262) and my display tank (the outlet)


The issue is, I am having issues fine tuning the flow of these two valves. If I leave both on full blast, the baffles overflow. If I regulate the ball valve from the display tank to the sump, it will be fine for a while but it'll eventually flood over the baffles, or the sump will run dry. Any suggestions?

Note: its 1 inch (ID) INTO the sump and 3/4 (ID) OUT from the sump.

 

[bobman]

Leave the ball valve from the tank to the sump wide open. I have never understood the point of that as you do not want any ristriction leaving the DT. Then you can fine tune the sump with the ball valve on the return pump. If the return compartment runs dry you need more water. If thats not an option you need a better/bigger sump. Do you have pics of the sump to help.

 

[ElectrumGuy]

The return compartment only runs dry when i regulate the ball valve from the tank to the sump too much. If I open it wide up, the return pump can't keep up so it floods the baffles (doesn't overflow the sump as its a 55g). Attached is a pic.

 

[bobman]

Not quite sure I understand what you mean as the return pump is what regulates the amount of water going to the tank then to the sump and through the baffles. Water can not move through the baffles faster than the pump can pump.

When you turn down the ball valve from the tank to the sump the return compartment is going dry because the water in the tank is rising due to you restricting the ball valve.

Looking at this picture everything is running as it should I would raise the water in the return compartment a little but either way it appears to be working as it should

 

[ElectrumGuy]

Not quite sure I understand what you mean as the return pump is what regulates the amount of water going to the tank then to the sump and through the baffles. Water can not move through the baffles faster than the pump can pump.

When you turn down the ball valve from the tank to the sump the return compartment is going dry because the water in the tank is rising due to you restricting the ball valve.

Looking at this picture everything is running as it should I would raise the water in the return compartment a little but either way it appears to be working as it should

To the left of my picture is the drain from the tank to the sump. This has a ball valve on it. To the right (connected to the return pump) is another ball valve which returns to the sump. The reason it looks right currently is because the right ball valve is 100% open. While the drain (from the tank) is partially closed. This is the issue I am facing.

 

[ElectrumGuy]

Here is a picture of what the drain/return look like in the display tank.

 

[theMerchant]

You Definitely need more water in the sump. More pictures will help. What type of drain you running?

 

[ElectrumGuy]

You Definitely need more water in the sump. More pictures will help. What type of drain you running?

What do you mean by drain?

the drain is 1 inch inner diameter (vinyl tubing), the return is 3/4 inner diameter (braded vinyl tubing).

I set the baffles to 8.5 inches for the first compartment, as this is w hat the skimmer recommended. This also allowed the sump not to overflow if there was a power outage. 1 thing I can do is remove the rock from the sump, this'll allow more water to flow.

 

[theMerchant]

I meant what kind of overflow, durso, herbie, beananimal...
As for skimmer height, some have elevated the skimmer with a box or similar.

 

[bobman]

If you want my personal opinion here I would run both those "holes in the tank for overflows into the sump and get you an over flow box to cover them. Then have the return just come up and over the back of the tank.

If think what might be causing your issue (if I am on the same page here) is you are restricting your drain line and raising the water level in the tank (probably to lower noise aswell) The problem with that is once the water in the tank raises it will create a siphon to the sump. This will move the water faster than the pump is pumping untill the water level reaches the overflow then you will hear a gurggling noise and it will repeat.

The overflow IMO is just not a good design.

 

[ElectrumGuy]

I meant what kind of overflow, durso, herbie, beananimal...
As for skimmer height, some have elevated the skimmer with a box or similar.

Hi,

I had a local store do the drilling for me. They did not specify the sort of overflow it was. I just went with their recommendation. I posted some pictures above. Below is a picture of what it looks like from the outside of the tank.

The PVC elbow portion is the drain, the other one is the return.

I believe they did it this way to make it very quiet as this is a peninsula tank of sorts in my living room. I can't really change the design, I just want feedback on regulating the flow.

Will removing the live rock from the tank help any? This way there is more room for water between the baffles.

 

[bobman]

Removing the rock will have little effect on overall flow entering and exiting the sump. Not sure why they did this in this way. By creating a siphon you can get it fine tuned but you are asking for trouble and will always be adjusting as flow rates change over time. The only way I see a siphon like that work is in a bean animal style overflow and thats not it. Again I would look into a coast to coast overflow box. With that you do not have to change the design except maybe remove the fitting inside the tank that connects to the bulk head. It will give it a sleeker look, be quite and you will not be pulling your hair out trying to get it adjusted.

As it is right now you are going to be there till the end of time trying to get it adjusted just right and by the time you do (if ever) flow rates are going to change and you will be back to square one

 

[theMerchant]

Yes I agree with bobman. You need a overflow box.
Do a search on herbie oveflow.

 

[bobman]

Agreed it will solve all your headaches in one shot. You wont have to adjust it all the time if ever and IMO will look a lot cleaner.

 

[ElectrumGuy]

Yes I agree with bobman. You need a overflow box.
Do a search on herbie oveflow.

To install an overflow box, all I would need to do would be drain the tank to that level, and silicone it on the tank? It'll overflow into the overflow box, and then eventually climb up to the level that is required for it to drain?

 

[bobman]

Exactly do a water change (never hurts) drain it I would say at least an inch below the bottom of the box silicone it and let it sit at least over night and your good to go. Box installed just be sure to use aquarium safe silicone

 

[ElectrumGuy]

Exactly do a water change (never hurts) drain it I would say at least an inch below the bottom of the box silicone it and let it sit at least over night and your good to go. Box installed just be sure to use aquarium safe silicone

That does sound easy. Could you link me to a place I can purchase an overflow box you would recommend? Since my tank is already drilled, I asusme I will just have to drill the overflow box itself to match up with my existing setup?

PS: If I used something like this:

http://www.marinedepot.com/CPR_RSS_..._Saltwater_Aquariums-CPR-CR20450-FIOF-vi.html

I wouldn't need to let the silicone cure right? I have fish in my tank right now so cutting them off from the sump's heaters/filters isn't ideal.

 

[bobman]

That is what I used in my tank and it worked well. You would have to make sure you got one big enough to cover the holes already drilled. If not there is a sponsor here that specializes in overflow boxes and makes a coast to coast that just glues in you would not even have to remove your bulkheads just glue it in or well silicone it not glue but

 

[ElectrumGuy]

That is what I used in my tank and it worked well. You would have to make sure you got one big enough to cover the holes already drilled. If not there is a sponsor here that specializes in overflow boxes and makes a coast to coast that just glues in you would not even have to remove your bulkheads just glue it in or well silicone it not glue but

I was thinking of getting the DX18 which is 12.5 inches wide. My tank is 18 inches wide so that would work. Am I correct in that if I did use the DX18, I wouldn't have to silicone the overflow to the tank (i.e. my fish won't be without a sump)? Or do you think I should silicone it to the tank? Will my fish be OK 24 hours without a sump?

 

[bobman]

You are correct. Just get a regular holesaw (dont have to be for glass.) Cut out for the holes in the tank and install could be back up and running in about an hour. One tip on drilling acrylic I have found so the bit dont bind and crack the acrylic is after you get the pilot hole done run the holesaw backwards. Take a little longer to go through it but it makes life so much easier.