Flow to increase coloration?

[Cully]

Been at this a long time. Great success with Halides. Limited with LED. Finally getting really good growth but coloration is lackluster. Ran an ICP test through Triton and everything was dead nuts except phosphates were non-existent. Taking counter measures to increase this.

Turning down refugium (H380) photoperiod. Increased and diversified feeding. Not dosing PO4 yet but may. Seems to be working.
My flow on a standard 120 is via return Vectra M1 and 2 MP40s on the back wall on reef crest to create gyre. Just added a 3rd on side wall.

as a stand alone variable, have you guys seen coloration improve by adding flow?? Thanks!

lighting is 2 radions, 1kessil ap700, 2 ati blue+ and 1 actinic, 1coral+.
Thanks!

 

[SeaDweller]

Can't say I have because I have some that are poorly colored in strong flow and ones that are superbly colored in very little flow. The opposite has occurred too, unfortunately.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I don't think flow will affect coloration at all. I guess you could argue flow brings food and removes debree which may affect health and therefore color but flow alone I would say no.

I'm not too familiar with halides but run LEDs. Are halides more powerful than LEDs? Maybe they need more light? I would also say your 0 phospate could be part of it.

 

[Cully]

You mean this isn’t a cook book hobby lol??

I’m trying to be systematic and adjust 1 variable at a time. You can see in the pic how, especially on the right top, corals are growing into the flow. So i needed to make the flow more random for growth pattern as well. Time will tell.

 

[C. Eymann]

Flow can affect coloration in some corals due to reduced polyp shading of the "base" of the coral seen this with some really fuzzy acros, seritopora, montipora digitata, a great example this is apparent with is ORAs bird of paradise.

 

[ndrwater]

1st off, tank looks great.
2nd... IMO no... Meaning you won't get better color from more flow.
Lighting and nutrients have way more to do with coloration than anything else. Flow helps with growth and polyp extension more than anything.
Having a very similar setup to yours, I can say it all works. If anything, try adding some Aminos to the mix. I use Acropower and find (if not overdosed) it works well

 

[SeaDweller]

You mean this isn’t a cook book hobby lol??

I’m trying to be systematic and adjust 1 variable at a time. You can see in the pic how, especially on the right top, corals are growing into the flow. So i needed to make the flow more random for growth pattern as well. Time will tell.

I mean, it looks like you've been in the hobby for some time, it's really going to come down to your water chemistry and lighting. If you look at huge colonies that have decreased flow through and around them because of physical size, they still maintain coloration throughout the colony even in the areas that are dense and receiving less flow (not talking about the die off that could occur as the colony grows and could shade itself out in some areas)

 

[Cully]

1st off, tank looks great.
2nd... IMO no... Meaning you won't get better color from more flow.
Lighting and nutrients have way more to do with coloration than anything else. Flow helps with growth and polyp extension more than anything.
Having a very similar setup to yours, I can say it all works. If anything, try adding some Aminos to the mix. I use Acropower and find (if not overdosed) it works well

I have Been dosing aminos for about a month now.

If nothing else the new flow will help growth pattern.

To the best of my knowledge it’s still the phosphates or lack thereof. My nutrient export is apparently TOO effective. The H380 doubles possibly triples chaeto in 2 weeks. Hopefully slowly ramping the photoperiod down on that may bring it into better balance. I seem To be on the right track.

Appreciate the input!

 

[ndrwater]

I have Been dosing aminos for about a month now.

If nothing else the new flow will help growth pattern.

To the best of my knowledge it’s still the phosphates or lack thereof. My nutrient export is apparently TOO effective. The H380 doubles possibly triples chaeto in 2 weeks. Hopefully slowly ramping the photoperiod down on that may bring it into better balance. I seem To be on the right track.

Appreciate the input!

I agree.
Once I started with the Aminos in my tank, everything changed for the better. You are correct though, phosphate and nitrate are both absolutely necessary for good coloration. In my SPS tank I run pretty close to 5-8 Nitrate and somewhere close to .03+/- phosphate. For me at least, that seems to be the sweet spot.
Having your fuge work to well, which it sounds like, can be detrimental.
Long winded answer for "many ways to skin a reef"
Looking at your tank, I would say you aren't doing anything wrong at all. I get the idea of wanting that extra 1%... Keep it up!!

 

[jda]

I never found more flow to help anything if you already have a competent amount. If you have nearly no flow, then it will help both growth and color.

I think that you know this already, but the color differences you are seeing are in the light differences.

 

[Cully]

I think I have Plenty of light. That’s the vexing thing. Take a tri-color valida for example. Growing great. Pastel in coloration. Good flow. Upper 1/2 of the tank. I don't Have a PAR meter, but at that depth, it should have plenty of light just from the T5s alone much less the T5 and LEDs. Same for a few at the top of the tank. Nana, strawberry shortcake. Red planet. All pastel. Definitely lacking the brilliance they had from the people I bought Them from who were using LED only. I’m convinced it’s a phosphate thing.

 

[Cully]

I had Wanted to up the flow regardless. Was wondering if there was a consensus on it being an important factor for coloration as a sole variable. Interesting input for sure, thank you all for taking the time. I really Appreciate the different perspectives.

 

[jda]

It is not about quantity... it is about quality. If you are not already relying on the T5s to do the heavy lifting and then using the LEDs to supplement, then this will help. If you are, then you are seeing what only people who have had success with all-T5 or MH can see... it is no the same when relying on LED where you might like one or the other better, but they do not do the same thing.

 

[Reefcowboy]

Im having same issue. I added an oversize refugium and it stripped my tank of nitrates and phosphates completely. I dose acropower everyday and noticed color improvement, but feel Ill have to raise no3(0.2ppm).

Dosing nitrate seems tempting, but it is like messing with a bee hive. When it is too much hell breaks loose without notice.

I think flow wont help color.

Some say increasing food is the way to go. I feed 10-12 cubes of mysis a day and still cant get nitrate readings. Maybe add pellets on an auto feeder and reduce photoperiod like you plan seems to be the way?

 

[Cully]

It is not about quantity... it is about quality. If you are not already relying on the T5s to do the heavy lifting and then using the LEDs to supplement, then this will help. If you are, then you are seeing what only people who have had success with all-T5 or MH can see... it is no the same when relying on LED where you might like one or the other better, but they do not do the same thing.

Interesting, can you elaborate? Are you referring to PAR, PUR? Spread? Spectrum?

Thanks!

 

[panic]

I found better color by increasing my nearly non-detectable nitrates with dosing lab grade sodium nitrate. It is 10 right now. I got my phosphates down from .15 to .o5ppm with gfo and doing a better job of siphoning detritus twice a week instead of when I saw a pile.

 

[Flippers4pups]

Flow will aid in SPS receiving nutrients, which in turn could aid in coloration from nutrients in the water column. Could. But there is a limit to how much flow and this is dictated on many factors.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

It is not about quantity... it is about quality. If you are not already relying on the T5s to do the heavy lifting and then using the LEDs to supplement, then this will help. If you are, then you are seeing what only people who have had success with all-T5 or MH can see... it is no the same when relying on LED where you might like one or the other better, but they do not do the same thing.

@jda do you honestly think MH produce better color than leds?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

OP what is your radion schedule?

 

[Cully]

Using the Coral Lab AB schedule. I do Not mess with my LED schedule either. It’s tempting to constantly change it as they are so accessible.

Blue Plus bulbs on for 6 hours and the actinic and coral plus are on for 3 at mid day. Kessil and Radions ramp up and down over 12 hours with main photoperiod ramp up at 8 hours.

I’ve been to the Ecotech Coral lab in Toronto an I’ve been to WWC in Orlando and spoken to people at both facilities at length. I really Don’t think it’s lighting at this point.

There’s a YouTube video tour of Jason Fox’s house, it’s obviously insane, but on many of his tanks all he runs are Blue Plus T5s.

I really Appreciate the points of view. It’s definitely shaking out the cobwebs in my aging brain lol. Forcing me to think it through.

Personally I had More success with MH so in my experience coloration was better but I’m gaining on LEDs. It’s hard to argue with the success others are having and the colors they are producing. Call me crazy but many of the “high end” expensive frags out there look like some of the same old stuff with better enhanced brilliant coloration by some really talented reefers. Until I get This hammered out, and I will!, I’m afraid the really cherry stuff will fade out a bit in my tank and thus won’t be worth the investment.

In my 15 years at this I’ve learned two absolutes. 1) There is no one way to have a successful reef. And 2) The Reef gods ALWAYS win.