Flow to increase coloration?

[Charlie’s Frags]

First of all your tank looks great, so I’m reluctant to tell you to repair something that doesn’t look broke. Second, I can’t tell what acros you have in there but if you want rainbow Tenuis colors then you first off need to have rainbow Tenuis acros. The best coloration I’ve seen in person is at one of our lfs and the best colors are from all the rainbow tenuis, but they use halide, radions and t5. The T5’s and halides are only on for 4-6 hours and the colors are much duller during this time. Wwc only uses whites for 5 hours of their 12 hours and I’ve been told JF does 4 hours of blue, 4 hours of full spectrum and then another 4 hours of blue. I use a modified ab+ Spectrum on my hydras but I only have 2 hours with whites above 20, the other 10 hours my whites are less than 10. Bluer spectrum gives more color pop. I don’t like blue only but more blue/less white will yield better color.

I’d like to add that I have mild flow and +10 no3 and +0.10 po4 (+35 ppb). If I notice my no3/po4 dropping below these I reduce my fuge lighting and turn my skimmer off for 12 hours a day or longer.

 

[flockaveli]

I think flow can be correlated with overall health of a coral. So, in a sense, yes, flow can increase color if a specific coral is in a spot lacking the adequate flow to thrive and reach full potential. However, I would say lighting, params have a larger impact on the coloration of your corals.

Bluer spectrum gives more color pop. I don’t like blue only but more blue/less white will yield better color.

Has this been proven by anyone?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I think flow can be correlated with overall health of a coral. So, in a sense, yes, flow can increase color if a specific coral is in a spot lacking the adequate flow to thrive and reach full potential. However, I would say lighting, params have a larger impact on the coloration of your corals.


Has this been proven by anyone?

It has been proven to me and my eyes by my tank. My corals look way more colorful at 20k than they do at 14k or 12k. I’ve observed more growth and alk/cal/mag consumption by adding more whites for 2 hours of my schedule, but the acros don’t look nearly as colorful during that period.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I think flow can be correlated with overall health of a coral. So, in a sense, yes, flow can increase color if a specific coral is in a spot lacking the adequate flow to thrive and reach full potential. However, I would say lighting, params have a larger impact on the coloration of your corals.


Has this been proven by anyone?

Which looks better to you?
20k

14k

12k

modified ab+

 

[flockaveli]

Which looks better to you?
20k

14k

12k

modified ab+

My honest opinion, but I like the 12k and 14k colors.

You said you added more white and noticed an increase in growth. How do you know that's also not helping the color? IME, and increase in growth usually means better overall health, and color. Would you say after that increase you corals don't fluoresce as much or don't look as colorful?

Blue light might make some corals LOOK better or expose some hidden colors. I haven't seen any evidence that running a bluer spectrum will increase REAL coloration in a coral vs running a warmer spectrum.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

My honest opinion, but I like the 12k and 14k colors.

You said you added more white and noticed an increase in growth. How do you know that's also not helping the color? IME, and increase in growth usually means better overall health, and color. Would you say after that increase you corals don't fluoresce as much or don't look as colorful?

Blue light might make some corals LOOK better or expose some hidden colors. I haven't seen any evidence that running a bluer spectrum will increase REAL coloration in a coral vs running a warmer spectrum.

Before adding the whites

after

And I said more blue makes the colors pop not produces more colors

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Actually now that I’m looking at a bunch of other pics I think I’ll be reducing that white period a bit.

 

[flockaveli]

Before adding the whites

after

And I said more blue makes the colors pop not produces more colors

Hard to tell from the pics, looks like they are all under different spectrums, but that's really besides my point.

I guess I just misinterpreted your other post stating "more blue/less white light will yield better colors", and I think it may be misinterpreting to others as well, that running bluer spectrum will yield, or produce better colors in their corals.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Hard to tell from the pics, looks like they are all under different spectrums, but that's really besides my point.

I guess I just misinterpreted your other post stating "more blue/less white light will yield better colors", and I think it may be misinterpreting to others as well, that running bluer spectrum will yield, or produce better colors in their corals.

You’re correct about the misinterpretation but the spectrums are all the same. The first 2 may have been taken during a ramp up or down at a lower intensity. The last 2 pics were taken seconds apart just before I posted them and they kind of look different from each other.
Is there scientific evidence that proves fuller spectrums “produce” more colors?

 

[C. Eymann]

This reminds of the days when we would debate about Kelvin temps with halides, blue for better color development! White for more growth!
lol

However, there are some incredible tanks with good coloration grown under 10k settings/ bulbs.

Look at some of the coral in @o2manyfishes sunlit frag tanks.

I went from Radium 20ks, to Phoenix 14k DE, to Aqualine buschke 10ks DE (favorite)
last bulb I ran was a 12k reefflux

I like the natural look of 10-12k and stuff grows super fast, but yes, better color was achieved with my radiums.


I'm still an LED virgin, so that's all I can contribute.

 

[C. Eymann]

You’re correct about the misinterpretation but the spectrums are all the same. The first 2 may have been taken during a ramp up or down at a lower intensity. The last 2 pics were taken seconds apart just before I posted them and they kind of look different from each other.
Is there scientific evidence that proves fuller spectrums “produce” more colors?

@Dana Riddle ?

 

[jda]

There is no doubt that MH produce better coloration than LED. I think that there is a ceiling where you can only get to 75-80% with LED, but some people never get this high anyway, never see the difference or know enough to matter, or do know the difference and just do not care. The OP is seeing this... it is not reasonable to expect the LED to do the same thing that his MH did - he might not care or he might like what he has no better, but it will never be the same. There is no way around this... if he wants to get to where he was before, he will have to get MH again... he has seen the difference, knows the difference and there is not unknowing what he knows.

For most, they will never even get to the 75-80% ceiling, so who really cares.

BTW - you cannot put a LED to a 14k spectrum and expect it to look like a 14k Halide bulb does. They will just look different.

If anybody is ever in Boulder and wants to stop by, I have NEVER had anybody come to my house and leave thinking that their Radions, Hydras, Kessils, etc. ever had the same color that my MH did. Nobody. They have nice tanks, but they all can see what I mean about hitting a ceiling. You have to use the MH in your home to know the difference, much like the OP does.

Three might be some good reasons to not use MH, even if you know that they are better... the apps, couch control, thunderstorms, etc... but with the advent of RB LED bars, you can always black-light some MH grown corals which pop even more that LED grown corals under the RB/black light lighting.

 

[jda]

Yes, there is science that shows that spectrums from about 350nm to 850nm provide more color. Some in the form of emission, usage and expulsion at a lower energy... some in the form of straight reflection and some in the form of "sunscreen" pigments that divert waves that the coral has no intention of using.

All of the "studies" that you see about blue only being important are both complete bunk and only partially true about photosynthesis, not coloration. Remember that light colors and nourishes. Why would these organisms spend valuable time in nature evolving to use every spectrum available only to have humans try and outsmart them and only run blue spectrum - nearly everything that we have in our tanks are collected on one-breath at depths of less than 3 meters, or so... they get full 6500k spectrum in nature.

In general, full spectrum daylight will render the best colors and then you can "blue it up" to illuminate any way that you wish. Growing corals just under blues will not usually yield the same color as corals grown under daylight. The best LED lit SPS tanks that I have seen run their panels at 100% on all channels for most of the day and then "blue it up" and night when they are home to view. Even better than this are MH or T5 tanks that have XHOs (or the like) that they can turn on at night.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

There is no doubt that MH produce better coloration than LED. I think that there is a ceiling where you can only get to 75-80% with LED, but some people never get this high anyway, never see the difference or know enough to matter, or do know the difference and just do not care. The OP is seeing this... it is not reasonable to expect the LED to do the same thing that his MH did - he might not care or he might like what he has no better, but it will never be the same. There is no way around this... if he wants to get to where he was before, he will have to get MH again... he has seen the difference, knows the difference and there is not unknowing what he knows.

For most, they will never even get to the 75-80% ceiling, so who really cares.

BTW - you cannot put a LED to a 14k spectrum and expect it to look like a 14k Halide bulb does. They will just look different.

If anybody is ever in Boulder and wants to stop by, I have NEVER had anybody come to my house and leave thinking that their Radions, Hydras, Kessils, etc. ever had the same color that my MH did. Nobody. They have nice tanks, but they all can see what I mean about hitting a ceiling. You have to use the MH in your home to know the difference, much like the OP does.

Three might be some good reasons to not use MH, even if you know that they are better... the apps, couch control, thunderstorms, etc... but with the advent of RB LED bars, you can always black-light some MH grown corals which pop even more that LED grown corals under the RB/black light lighting.

You do have some great looking corals but I would never say they look “better or more colorful” than other lighting options. I used 14K and 20k metal halides 10 years ago and I don’t remember the color being anywhere near as good as what I have now with led, but I do remember them growing faster. I myself would rather have better color than faster growth.

 

[jda]

Get some good MH and use them... you will get it.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

You do have some great looking corals but I would never say they look “better or more colorful” than other lighting options. I used 14K and 20k metal halides 10 years ago and I don’t remember the color being anywhere near as good as what I have now with led, but I do remember them growing faster. I myself would rather have better color than faster growth.

Actually I retract the faster growth statement. I think Tenuis just grow slower in general. I never had any colonies as large as I do now after 10 months.

 

[C. Eymann]

Actually I retract the faster growth statement. I think Tenuis just grow slower in general. I never had any colonies as large as I do now after 10 months.

Nah, I remember when the walt Disney came out and was $1200 per inch, I thought to myself "for once an expensive coral is actually a fast growing species"

A. tenuis "used to" be regarded as a pretty rapid grower.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Nah, I remember when the walt Disney came out and was $1200 per inch, I thought to myself "for once an expensive coral is actually a fast growing species"

A. tenuis "used to" be regarded as a pretty rapid grower.

Some of my Tenuis grow really well, Disney included, but I have other Tenuis that grow at a snails pace.

 

[Dana Riddle]

A very complicated subject where there is no universal answer.
Let's look at flow first.
1. Many corals have rather specific requirements for best particle (food ) capture.
2. There was a paper written on polyp expansion years ago. In a nutshell, corals will not expand polyps if flow is either too high or too low.
3. The boundary layer (a stagnant layer of water) must be thin enough for mass transfer of elements necessary for health/growth, particularly with 'micro-nutrients.'
Any of these can affect the overall health of the coral.
As for coloration:
1. Colorful proteins are produced by the coral animal, not zooxanthellae.
2. These proteins are composed of nitrogen, hydrogen, carbon, sometimes sulfur (with nitrogen being a possible limiting factor.)
3. As a very general answer, there are two major classes of colorful proteins: Fluorescent proteins and non-fluorescent chromoproteins. Fluorescent proteins absorb light (excitation energy) and emit it at a longer wavelength (emission wavelengths.) Excitation energy varies from UV-A to yellow-green light. On the other hand, non-fluorescent proteins merely reflect light. Non-fluorescent blue corals reflect blue light, red ones red light, and purple/mauve reflect red and blue.
4. Blue light is generally responsible for expression of coloration - there are exceptions of course! The intensity of the excitation/protein expression light is important.
5. There are hundreds of colorful proteins found in corals. Light intensity can affect them. So can pH and metal concentrations.
6. Some proteins mature. Often from green to red and vice versa. Color mixing can fool the eye to see colors that actually aren't really there.
7. Some proteins (such as some the DsReds - isolated from the false coral Discosoma) don't require light. Color is due to chemical oxidation.
Anything that affects coral health can impact coloration.
Clear as mud, right?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Nah, I remember when the walt Disney came out and was $1200 per inch, I thought to myself "for once an expensive coral is actually a fast growing species"

A. tenuis "used to" be regarded as a pretty rapid grower.

Oct 2018-Oct 2019