Fritz Salt Issues?

[Sisterlimonpot]

Anyway. I would not count out Tap water or failing RO cans either.. Municipalities change things and tell nobody. As long as water tests as potable, they will make changes. Carbon filters in RO systems fail a lot faster when some changes get made.

This would be my first stop as well. About a month ago I noticed I was going through DI a lot faster than normal. TDS came out 0-1 but it led me to do some investigating. I Phoned Spectrapure (since they are in my backyard, they asked me to bring my whole system in. Come to find out my carbon block was spent and my membrane wasn't working to capacity. I bought all new prefilters, new membrane and added a silica buster and maxcap to the end of my DI.

Over the course of 3 weeks of large water changes (total of 250g for a 350g system), I have seen a huge improvement in coral color and PE.

I don't use Fritz, I switched to Red Sea blue bucket about 6 months ago from IO. Here's the good news for me, I sent in an ICP test right before I started the large water changes, and I will send in another in about 4 weeks. I hope to see a dramatic improvement between the 2.

Just to piggy back, @Crabs McJones check for chlorine in your brine line of your membrane housing, it should come back undetectable.

And I personally like the ATI ICP test because it also allows you to test your RODI water to rule out elevations of elements from salt.

 

[Flippers4pups]

1. When did you buy this salt? And from where? 2-3 months ago. (This could be a non issue because the LFS may have had it for a long time before I purchased it) LFS.

2. Have you tested all the parms on the fresh mix? I read a thread on here about hw marine having a bad batch of salt that was way low in potassium and a lot of people lost coral because of it. No, never have tested newly made saltwater. Never had a reason to do so.

3. Are you leaving the salt mixed for a long period of time before using it?
Overnight. I've always made saltwater the night before a water change. 24 years of doing this.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Cool, thanks for the answers.
Hope more will respond and maybe there will be some sort of common string.

I bought a box at least 6 months ago from a friend who buys in bulk.

I test my make up water on occasion for the usual stuff; alk, cal, mag. Test RO on occasion too for TDS and total chlorine. Never potassium though.

I too mix 24 hours and use.

I have had no problems with this box as far as I can tell. Just received a box this weekend from algae barn and stumbled onto this thread and became a little concerned.

 

[sfin52]

One question I have. If alk drops that fast in our buckets so we are to use it right away. What stops the alk from dropping in our tanks. The water is always moving.

Please I lost like an Easter Egg.

 

[Jonathan Troutt]

Interesting information here. Curious to see where it goes. Come to think of it i started having issues after switching to fritz but never thought it was the salt.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

One question I have. If alk drops that fast in our buckets so we are to use it right away. What stops the alk from dropping in our tanks. The water is always moving.

Please I lost like an Easter Egg.

Alk does drop in out tanks for several reasons. That's why most add it in some form.

It doesn't drop much over time in our make-up water though. BRS has a few good videos on this. Unfortunately fritz isn't one of the salts they tested but I can't imagine it is much different when you see the results for the others.

 

[n4s]

Interesting timing to come across this thread to me.
I have recently lost my Montipora colonies and frags. Shortly after and currently my acros started to stn and lose color. Some of my frags in connected frag tank I completely lost.

Only thing that changed in the system was Fritz salt water change. I do 10% at a time (32 gallons of 325 gallon) Every time I did a water change of 10% the problem seemed to get worse. I’m not saying it was fritz salt That caused the issues but the problem started after the water change with this particular box and got worse after every water change since then. I did a total of about 120 gallons with fritz during all this. Hindsight I should of probably should of tried a different salt in case that was the problem but I had confidence at the time it wasn’t the cause of it.
Switched to Red Sea blue bucket last week and slowly doing water changes with that to see if everything rebounds. I also have been running activated carbon During this which I have also been doing since it cycled few yeas ago.

Tank parameters stayed consistent as I did the water changes at
Alk 8.3
Cal 420
Mag 1400
Po4: .05-.07
No3 10-15
35ppt

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Okay, another question for everyone with problems....

Has anyone tested potassium in conjunction with their losses/problems? Maybe a batch of fritz salt is super low in potassium.

@4ns when did you get that particular box?

 

[n4s]

Okay, another question for everyone with problems....

Has anyone tested potassium in conjunction with their losses/problems? Maybe a batch of fritz salt is super low in potassium.

@4ns when did you get that particular box?

I ordered the box end of March. Opened that particular box mid June. I mixed up the dry salt container before mixing in water to avoid settling.

And I did test potassium yesterday actually. It was slightly lower than last time I tested it a few months ago. Current potassium is 370-380. It was at 400-410 few months ago. Salifert test.

 

[328 reef]

In my case, I mixed up the salt, left the power head running 24-7, then 2 days later I tested it to be 1.025 and started my water change. Not knowing this before hand, i would of not mixed it for that long. did water change and a few days later, fish were dying, coral were being bleached, it was Future in the hobby. I had lost everything within a week. I tested everything to find what happened. the water was the last to be tested. Potassium was way low, My Alk was 6,0! So I went to my local lfs and they tested the water also, same conculsion.. My Theory Is why when you do the water change, the powerhead in the tank is mixing the water so to speak, I tested the tank water a day or 2 after my crash, and the Alk was below 6. ?? since then i had switched to Aqua Forest, I mixed up a batch in my brute container, and let it mix with a power head for a week 7 Days straight!! Tested the water, Spot on! no white slurry in bottom of barrel. My corals in my main display are thriving! the corals are more colorful. and hardly any brown crap on my glass from Reef Crystals, and Fritz.

 

[14 foot reef]

I leave my mixing pump on 24/7 and do auto water changes daily 32 oz per hour every hour 24 hours a day. 5% weekly is the total. Ive went through 35 of the 50 gallons made this week and my alk is 9.8 Pump has been running and mixing the entire time. Salinity is 1.024 and there is no slurry in the bottom.

 

[murphys_aquatics]

I switched to Fritz a while back and the 1st batch mixed very clean and clear. I was impressed! 2nd batch developed this funky brown film and algae. It was worse than regular IO if you know what I’m talking about. I found this very strange since the first batch was incredibly clean and clear.

It does strike me odd how some people who made the switch to this salt had issues within a few months of using it. Can’t say it was Fritz though. Could have been anything. So many variables and without any good documentation or an ICP test, it’s really difficult to determine exactly what happened.

As far as Rico’s tank, man what a bummer. He will get through it though. He’s got quite a bit of experience to overcome. It would be nice to see the ICP’s he sent off. I’m not drawing any conclusions without that data or some solid documentation. As far as I know, he wasn’t documenting anything. Or at least he’s never said he was or showed any of us on the live streams. The story is very consistent about what he said he did and he’s been super transparent about it. We’ll have to wait on the ICP’s to understand the big picture. I hope it’s not Fritz. Maybe all the RTN and stripping tissue can be explained by some source of contamination.

Whaz up bro. I guess my 2 cents

I switched to Fritz a while back and the 1st batch mixed very clean and clear. I was impressed! 2nd batch developed this funky brown film and algae. It was worse than regular IO if you know what I’m talking about. I found this very strange since the first batch was incredibly clean and clear.

It does strike me odd how some people who made the switch to this salt had issues within a few months of using it. Can’t say it was Fritz though. Could have been anything. So many variables and without any good documentation or an ICP test, it’s really difficult to determine exactly what happened.

As far as Rico’s tank, man what a bummer. He will get through it though. He’s got quite a bit of experience to overcome. It would be nice to see the ICP’s he sent off. I’m not drawing any conclusions without that data or some solid documentation. As far as I know, he wasn’t documenting anything. Or at least he’s never said he was or showed any of us on the live streams. The story is very consistent about what he said he did and he’s been super transparent about it. We’ll have to wait on the ICP’s to understand the big picture. I hope it’s not Fritz. Maybe all the RTN and stripping tissue can be explained by some source of contamination.

My 2 cents I see a commonly trending comment. Everyone is getting 0.03 or less with their phosphates. If your tanks are use to higher Phosphorus levels and you make the switch to a salt that mixes really low it could be everyone's issue. From what I've heard Fritz does reject batches that mix over 0.02 for phosphates. There is a quality control number on every box.

These test kits arent pin point accurate with a pretty wide range of tolerance. Nobody can say 100% its Fritz.

In their defense I've been using it for a year or so went thru 5 or 6 boxes of the stuff. No issue likely due to my system being use to low or ULR readings already.
I think the most likely suspect is this not testing and fixing the issues before they become major issues.

The most likely issue and it seems common with all these comments, low Phophate = SLOWLY KILLING YOUR CORALS. Same thing that is happening in Australia. Nitrogen is eating up all the phosphates starving the corals.

Theres always the human err margain to think about. Especially testing

 

[Flippers4pups]

Whaz up bro. I guess my 2 cents

My 2 cents I see a commonly trending comment. Everyone is getting 0.03 or less with their phosphates. If your tanks are use to higher Phosphorus levels and you make the switch to a salt that mixes really low it could be everyone's issue. From what I've heard Fritz does reject batches that mix over 0.02 for phosphates. There is a quality control number on every box.

These test kits arent pin point accurate with a pretty wide range of tolerance. Nobody can say 100% its Fritz.

In their defense I've been using it for a year or so went thru 5 or 6 boxes of the stuff. No issue likely due to my system being use to low or ULR readings already.
I think the most likely suspect is this not testing and fixing the issues before they become major issues.

The most likely issue and it seems common with all these comments, low Phophate = SLOWLY KILLING YOUR CORALS. Same thing that is happening in Australia. Nitrogen is eating up all the phosphates starving the corals.

Theres always the human err margain to think about. Especially testing

Not in my case, P04 stayed at .10 through the whole down turn. Nothing, and I will say again NOTHING changed except using the salt. When I discontinued the salt and switched back to IO, the condition of my corals slowly improved. The damage was done and some corals were dieing or dead.

Salt was the only thing that changed.

 

[murphys_aquatics]

Not in my case, P04 stayed at .10 through the whole down turn. Nothing, and I will say again NOTHING changed except using the salt. When I discontinued the salt and switched back to IO, the condition of my corals slowly improved. The damage was done and some corals were dieing or dead.

Salt was the only thing that changed.

So you would in fact say Instant Ocean is a dirtier salt? If your P04 was elevated.

 

[User1]

So you would in fact say Instant Ocean is a dirtier salt? If your P04 was elevated.

They are saying the only thing that changed was the salt. Changed to product and things started to decline. Changed salt again and things started to improve.

In this case it is pretty clear to me that it was the salt all things being equal. The part about agreeing with it or a vibe about the salt being bad, etc in this case it could be just that black and white. Especially if the only thing that changed was said salt.

 

[Flippers4pups]

So you would in fact say Instant Ocean is a dirtier salt? If your P04 was elevated.

No. It's always mixed clean for me. No precipitation occurs when I mix it. I just made some earlier this morning and it's now clear as a bell. No residue on anything.

 

[Reefahholic]

Whaz up bro. I guess my 2 cents

My 2 cents I see a commonly trending comment. Everyone is getting 0.03 or less with their phosphates. If your tanks are use to higher Phosphorus levels and you make the switch to a salt that mixes really low it could be everyone's issue. From what I've heard Fritz does reject batches that mix over 0.02 for phosphates. There is a quality control number on every box.

These test kits arent pin point accurate with a pretty wide range of tolerance. Nobody can say 100% its Fritz.

In their defense I've been using it for a year or so went thru 5 or 6 boxes of the stuff. No issue likely due to my system being use to low or ULR readings already.
I think the most likely suspect is this not testing and fixing the issues before they become major issues.

The most likely issue and it seems common with all these comments, low Phophate = SLOWLY KILLING YOUR CORALS. Same thing that is happening in Australia. Nitrogen is eating up all the phosphates starving the corals.

Theres always the human err margain to think about. Especially testing

Sup Murphy...

My initial gut feeling and you can check my comments on the live-streams- was a nutrient deficient tank. Here’s why I originally thought that.

Rico was very busy. He did several live-streams a week. He went on vacation, attended several events, etc. Although he was feeding a lot (according to him) the few times I heard him mention phosphates the numbers were low. His sand never had any algae or a bloom of anything that I saw. Really weird for dry rock and a new system. My initial thoughts were either his lighting is low or his NO3/PO4 is very low. Anyway, 1000/G is a big Jump from 700/G. That’s 300/G of extra water. May not sound like much, but it’s a big difference when you were previously feeding a 700/G total water volume. What your thinking to be a lot of food, may not be as much as you thought. When you get PO4 down to 0.03 to 0.01 (Rico said it was 0.01), you better be on top of your game testing with a new system full of Acro’s. I’ve seen my tank suck that up in 6 hours. If your tank bottoms out with zero numbers for too long...acropora will not tolerate that. The flip side would be... If you have a tank full of macros and large acropora colonies drinking it up and you’re getting zero numbers that’s a completely different situation and actually very common with acropora dominated systems with large colonies. There’s no lack of nutrients as we all know... it’s being consumed by a thriving system. This is typically verified by observing the coloration of the Acro’s and a green haze on the glass. “Dave’s nano tank’s” was a prime example of this. Always had zero numbers, but his colonies were rich in color and his Marco’s were super healthy and thriving. No doubt Dave had plenty of NO3/PO4 in the system. Another thing I constantly waited to hear about was his nitrate level. He never mentioned it when I was on the streams. Rarely mentioned his phosphate numbers. One thing I can tell you for sure about dry rock (90% of my systems were started with it). Dry rock will yield higher nitrate & phosphate initially (usually for the first 4-6 maybe 8 months). Once the rock and bio media start to become established...that 0.8-0.9 PO4 level you were really worried about... has all of a sudden took a “huge dive” down to 0.2 and then 0.05...then ZERO! If you do not dose the system back up with enough phosphates, nitrates, or nutrition- you will experience starving acropora which often leads to STN and RTN. A 1000/G water volume is very difficult to keep up with. I’m not saying this is what happened, but it was my initial gut feeling. Trust me...I know all about it. Most of us have been there before. It makes me sick this all happened and I feel horrible for Rico, Fritz, and anybody who’s been affected. Rico will be fine and many of us will send him frags to restart the system. I think it’s the right thing to do no matter who’s fault it was. We’ve all been here in some way or another and that’s just reefing. It’s a beautiful hobby and boy can it frustrate the heck out of you.

 

[Reefahholic]

No. It's always mixed clean for me. No precipitation occurs when I mix it. I just made some earlier this morning and it's now clear as a bell. No residue on anything.

Flippers, can you send me a few boxes of yours. Mine always has a brown residue and the usual muck.

 

[murphys_aquatics]

No. It's always mixed clean for me. No precipitation occurs when I mix it. I just made some earlier this morning and it's now clear as a bell. No residue on anything.

Talking about phosphate levels of the salt now. If your phosphate levels are elevated and you dont have a good enough ratio of nitrates your corals will slowly die also. Just some acros and monti that I've experienced personally. Did you do a nitrate reading at this said point?

 

[murphys_aquatics]

Sup Murphy...

My initial gut feeling and you can check my comments on the live-streams- was a nutrient deficient tank. Here’s why I originally thought that.

Rico was very busy. He did several live-streams a week. He went on vacation, attended several events, etc. Although he was feeding a lot (according to him) the few times I heard him mention phosphates the numbers were low. His sand never had any algae or a bloom of anything that I saw. Really weird for dry rock and a new system. My initial thoughts were either his lighting is low or his NO3/PO4 is very low. Anyway, 1000/G is a big Jump from 700/G. That’s 300/G of extra water. May not sound like much, but it’s a big difference when you were previously feeding a 700/G total water volume. What your thinking to be a lot of food, may not be as much as you thought. When you get PO4 down to 0.03 to 0.01 (Rico said it was 0.01), you better be on top of your game testing with a new system full of Acro’s. I’ve seen my tank suck that up in 6 hours. If your tank bottoms out with zero numbers for too long...acropora will not tolerate that. The flip side would be... If you have a tank full of macros and large acropora colonies drinking it up and you’re getting zero numbers that’s a completely different situation and actually very common with acropora dominated systems with large colonies. There’s no lack of nutrients as we all know... it’s being consumed by a thriving system. This is typically verified by observing the coloration of the Acro’s and a green haze on the glass. “Dave’s nano tank’s” was a prime example of this. Always had zero numbers, but his colonies were rich in color and his Marco’s were super healthy and thriving. No doubt Dave had plenty of NO3/PO4 in the system. Another thing I constantly waited to hear about was his nitrate level. He never mentioned it when I was on the streams. Rarely mentioned his phosphate numbers. One thing I can tell you for sure about dry rock (90% of my systems were started with it). Dry rock will yield higher nitrate & phosphate initially (usually for the first 4-6 maybe 8 months). Once the rock and bio media start to become established...that 0.8-0.9 PO4 level you were really worried about... has all of a sudden took a “huge dive” down to 0.2 and then 0.05...then ZERO! If you do not dose the system back up with enough phosphates, nitrates, or nutrition- you will experience starving acropora which often leads to STN and RTN. A 1000/G water volume is very difficult to keep up with. I’m not saying this is what happened, but it was my initial gut feeling. Trust me...I know all about it. Most of us have been there before. It makes me sick this all happened and I feel horrible for Rico, Fritz, and anybody who’s been affected. Rico will be fine and many of us will send him frags to restart the system. I think it’s the right thing to do no matter who’s fault it was. We’ve all been here in some way or another and that’s just reefing. It’s a beautiful hobby and boy can it frustrate the heck out of you.

100% all been there in some way, shape or form