Fritz Salt Issues?

[PapaDragon]

Going further in this thread and reading lots of whats happening with ricos tank I find amazing how things can get pretty shaky quickly with forums, and so many “reefing
personalities” now sponsored and utilizing all products they endorse. With fritz salt, regardless if it has any fault in all that it is being blamed for, it is definitely shunned as this curse seems to be growing like wildfire on the web.

We all have so much time and money invested in our aquariums I think it’s understandable why we are all so skittish.

 

[adrianr514]

Question for everyone #reefsquad
Is there anything that DI resin and a TDS meter reading 0TDS that can get through due to exhausted prefilters and cause my issue?

Short answer is yes.

First we need to understand what TDS is and why saying you have a reading of 0TDS is actually an incorrect measurement.

TDS stands for Total Dissolved Solids and is not a unit of measurement. In the aquarium hobby we generally use parts per million as our selected unit of measure when referring to TDS. Now the thing is that our average TDS meter is only rated in PPM and most have a margin of error of +/- 2%. This margin of error also relies on Calibration. Is your meter calibrated to 342ppm or 1000ppm. If it is Calibrated at 1000ppm then when you get to a 0 reading that 2% variance could really be off up to 20 ppm. If you're calibrated at 342ppm then you're looking at a smaller 6ppm max possible variance.

But what happens if your meter is calibrated to 342ppm and you are getting a 0% Variance with a reading of 0ppm?

So as stated before our TDS meters are calibrated to read in parts per million and when we get a TDS reading of 0ppm we think the water is free of any contaminants. Well that's not usually the case. When we break it down even further to Parts Per Billion we can have a reading of up to 999ppb before it will even register as 1ppm. Outside of industrial scientific equipment we cannot measure such a small sample in our water.

There has to be a way to get a reading, right?

Yes, that is where Electrical Conductivity (EC) comes in. All organic and inorganic compounds have electrons in them and give off conductivity. These are measured in microsiemens (µS). For reference 1.00ppm is equivalent to 2.21µS and 0ppm can read anything from 2.20µS all the way down to 0.00µs. That is 220 individual possible readings of contaminants that are still making their way through your water at 0ppm.

How do I test µS?

A lot of higher priced handheld electrical conductivity meters are available from companies such as Hanna, HM Digital and others. For starters the HM COM-100 is the most inexpensive one that I have found to be reliable. This reads in both TDS and EC so you can switch from one to the other and see how your 0ppm water can still have an EC reading.

What can be getting through my DI that could cause an algae outbreaks?

DI is constantly on the hunt for stronger bonds. As it is used up it starts letting go of the weaker bonds to grab onto the stronger newer bonds. As it turns out Silicates and Phosphates are on the bottom of the food chain when it comes to bonds so those are the ones that are released first. Once mixed in with the salt and put into the aquarium they team up the other organics in your system which end up becoming the building blocks for algae.

Will an EC meter tell me what is getting through?

No it will not. Just like a standard TDS meter an EC meter only show how much of something is in the water and not what that something is.

What can I do to get the cleanest, purest water possible?

Outside of medical grade distilled water there really isn't anything you can do.

So what can I do?

Stay on top of your husbandry. Regular tank maintenance to remove excess waste, feed cleaner foods or less food. Make sure tank population isn't over stocked. Manual removal, etc...

 

[Reefahholic]

Just my opinion but I do not believe this is a large enough shift in PO4 to have a major impact, from .1 to .02. Maybe 1 to .02 would cause noticeable problems if it happened rapidly.

Nobody said it caused problems.

 

[living_tribunal]

I've been using Fritz sale for a couple years now, but lately I've been having issues with montipora paling out. And I've heard that other users are having similar issues. Does anyone know what might be going on? Going to switch to Red Sea Blue bucket as I've exhausted all other possibilities. At first I thought my caulerpa went sexual so I pulled it all and left only chaeto. Then I thought my toadstool was releasing toxins from me fragging it. So I pulled him out. Replaced my water mixing containers with grey brute trashcans as I thought maybe the black ones might be releasing stuff into the water as I found out they were freezing temp resistant. Afterwords I did a series of water changes and everything seems to be at a standstill. Not getting any worse but doesn't appear to be getting better.
Only thing I haven't done yet, but am doing today, is changing out all my RO/DI filters including new RO membranes. Was getting 0 TDS water but thought maybe something that the meter doesn't read was getting through as I've had a small algae outbreak.

If I had any hair left i'd be pulling it out.
Any and all suggestions welcome.

Parameters have stayed pretty consistent, these were the numbers as of last night
Sg 1.026
Alk 8.1
Calcium 440
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.5 PPM
Phosphate .03 PPM
Temp 78.2 depended on the day

Thanks in advance and here is some glitter to brighten up your day!

Did you see the video of ricos aquarium?

He's not blaming it on Fritz but many others have reported this same thing and his tank basically died the day he switched salt to fritz.

 

[Reefahholic]

It's the only thing I can think of as I'm going through an algae outbreak as well

I typically start getting algae when my skimmer removes too much of my bacteria population. Or when my nutrients get extremely low my tank will start growing some funky algae on the glass, rocks, sand, etc.

Try dosing some bacteria like Waste Away or something similar.

 

[Reefahholic]

Question for everyone #reefsquad
Is there anything that DI resin and a TDS meter reading 0TDS that can get through due to exhausted prefilters and cause my issue?

Possibly Silicates

 

[Reefahholic]

Did you see the video of ricos aquarium?

He's not blaming it on Fritz but many others have reported this same thing and his tank basically died the day he switched salt to fritz.

That’s not true. He was using Fritz for a while and corals were encrusting and doing well. According to Rico, the issues started around the time he started the second batch of Fritz.

 

[living_tribunal]

That’s not true. He was using Fritz for a while and corals were encrusting and doing well. According to Rico, the issues started around the time he started the second batch of Fritz.

Thanks for the correction, I came across his channel last week and thought he just switched his salt.

 

[SeaDweller]

Fwiw Pet co has 20% TM pro reef 80$ save20 is the code

I think you mean regular TM, I always check the app and website and Pro has been $99.88 for months now, even during the last few sales.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I had problems with Fritz but it was high magnesium. The tank was up to 1700 by the time I caught it. Fresh mix was over 1900. I have been using Live Aquaria Pro but I suspect as others do that it is just rebranded Fritz. It has about the same price point, same box with different graphics, same tie wrap securing bag etc. Maybe better QC because of contract? I havent had any problems but I am watching like a hawk.

Elevated magnesium, while certainly worth noting, should not be a cause for alarm in the numbers quoted here unless you're doing a very high percentage water change, which might cause too rapid a change. People (including myself) have run tanks with Mg well above 2000ppm in (still debatable) efforts to eliminate bryopsis. It would be important to know what the Mg level in the tank was prior to the change.

It should be very easy to know if LA salt is manufactured by Fritz. Fritz is the only brand I'm aware of that uses super fine NaCl. I mean, it's like flour or powdered sugar, while every other salt I've ever used, seen, or heard of has a granular crystal.

 

[PhreeByrd]

Yes regular carbon blocks will remove chlorine and chloramines to some degree, but not nearly as much as blocks engineered for their removal.

It's correct that waste water has traveled through the sediment filter and carbon blocks and is the rejected water from the membrane. If there is any chlorine or chloramines showing in the waste water , the carbon blocks are spent.

Why not test the water coming out of the DI? Because the deionizing resin will remove them. If it is tested and there isn't any showing on the test strips, you wouldn't know if the carbon blocks are spent.

Does that make sense?

Yes and no. The point has been made that DI resin will not necessarily remove chloramines or chlorine.
And nobody cares what's in the waste water. It's going down the drain. The only thing that matters is the product water, which is just as easy to test as the waste water, so there's no reason to make things more difficult than necessary. Either way, the water has already passed through the carbon filter(s).
Every RO/DI system I've ever seen has a DI bypass valve, so it's extremely easy to test the product water before and after the DI stage. Testing both (assuming a postive chlorine test result) should also tell you whether your DI resin actually is removing chlorine or chloramines (and possibly wasting your resin).

 

[siggy]

I think you mean regular TM, I always check the app and website and Pro has been $99.88 for months now, even during the last few sales.

And if you order online and do an in-store pickup, take off another 10% making it $72 !!!!! BUT . . . . . .
my local store has it on sale for $87 and after 20% is $70.68 and after 10% pickup- $ 63.00 !!!!!!!!!!

 

[alton]

After reading 8 pages it seems some batches of salt are not mixing clearly? I bought two boxes of LA salt in the last 6 months and both mixed clearly. I use Kent otherwise. As far as Chloramines, I have been dealing with them for 15+ years. After getting tired of eating through 2" x 10" filters I bought the monster which is a 4" x 20" container of specialized carbon for Chloramines. I have a "T" valve after my carbon before my membrane where I check for free and total chlorine. And the water smelling like sewer? I get that too sometimes from my water supply and it is when my TDS is at its lowest around 100. When it is 200 and above it is fine. My rural company buys water from different sources.

 

[Jimbo662]

I'm glad / hate that I found this thread. I switched to Fritz a little over a year ago. I'd added some SPS to the tank that were doing well (for my real first try at them). I started to see them slowly go down hill. Rather than losing everything I pull them and gave them back to the guy I'd gotten most of them from. After moving I decided to stick with LPS. All paramters in the tank were good but haven't been able to keep anything other than zoa's, mushrooms and a toadstool. This makes me wonder if my issue is the salt too. And what sucks is I bought a new bucket this past weekend!

 

[ss30]

One other thing, when mixing Fritz I had my RO/DI water up to temp and slowly added the salt, slowly. It did take some time to clear up, longer than IO. It looked like it was precipitating as I slowly sprinkled it in, for what it's worth.

You are supposed to mix it at room temp(21-24 c/70-75 f) and then when clear add a heater

 

[Flippers4pups]

You were supposed to mix it at room temp(21-24 c) and then when clear add a heater

Did that. My freshwater side of mixing station is always lower than room temp after filling. I followed their instructions to the letter.

 

[Homewrecker]

Fritz user here!
Tank looks great, sps growing, tank is still salty.
Blaming salt is the lamest excuse in the book

 

[TheHarold]

Fritz user here!
Tank looks great, sps growing, tank is still salty.
Blaming salt is the lamest excuse in the book

Agreed. And putting blame on a salt and posting about it, without even taking some measurements, is misleading IMO.

 

[Joedubyk]

Did that. My freshwater side of mixing station is always lower than room temp after filling. I followed their instructions to the letter.

Plus, it's not like a 1-2 degree (at best) swing is going to destroy a tank. I always use room temp salt mix for 10-15% water change. Tank doesnt skip a beat.

 

[MnFish1]

Is something wrong with this analysis or is the Alkalinity really 0?