Frustrated with Nitrates

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

Everything in my aquarium seems happy (except an SPS, but the other 4 SPS are fine)... Fish... Coral.... Anemone.... But my nitrates have been in the 5-10 range the past month or so. It's getting very frustrating. I do a 10 gallon water change every weekend. 75 gallon tank + 20 gallon sump. I've done a few 15 gallon changes trying to reduce it, but it stays steady. Not over feeding. Very lightly stocked. Been running a year and a half. What gives?

4FordFamily · Jun 11, 2015

kkgaskin90 said:
Everything in my aquarium seems happy (except an SPS, but the other 4 SPS are fine)... Fish... Coral.... Anemone.... But my nitrates have been in the 5-10 range the past month or so. It's getting very frustrating. I do a 10 gallon water change every weekend. 75 gallon tank + 20 gallon sump. I've done a few 15 gallon changes trying to reduce it, but it stays steady. Not over feeding. Very lightly stocked. Been running a year and a half. What gives?

I am always ok with nitrates up to 20 ppm, many corals prefer it. However, I am not an sps keeper aside from some monti caps.

When I want to tackle nitrates I do large water changes (30-75%) and I blow off the rocks with a power head prior (to remove settled detritus), remove nastiness from behind rocks where it settles, etc.

One thing that may contribute is your sump. It can become a resting place for crap and due to gravity prove difficult to remove it all. Shop vac may be in order, suck out some of the detritus that settles there and see if that helps as well.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Jun 11, 2015

5-10 ppm is not necessarily a big problem, but there are any ways to reduce nitrate. I use organic carbon dosing, growing macroalgae, skimming, and lots of live rock in refugia.

This has more:

https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

I considered carbon dosing, but I think my skimmer might be too sub-par for that... Coralife 150

diablomaster9045 · Jun 11, 2015

kkgaskin90 said:
I considered carbon dosing, but I think my skimmer might be too sub-par for that... Coralife 150

so use a macro algae for export.

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

Have macro too. Caulerpa, chaeto, red dragon, gracilaria (sp?), Nemastoma, and codium.

diablomaster9045 · Jun 11, 2015

kkgaskin90 said:
Have macro too. Caulerpa, chaeto, red dragon, gracilaria (sp?), Nemastoma, and codium.

what light do you have growing these macro algaes? Are they in the sump or the display?

Reefing Madness · Jun 11, 2015

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/high-nitrate.200082/#post-2286104

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

Nemastoma in display. Everything else in sump and I keep an eye on it because I worried about lighting, but had a hard time finding info on lighting requirements for macro. I'll have to look at what the light is over my fuge in a bit when I get home. Sub-par, I'm sure

pciscott · Jun 11, 2015

I target 5 to 10 on Nitrates in a SPS tank, I do not think that is your problem. What is your P04?

SPS can be tough and it recovers slowly from stress, I would maybe check for some other factor. I was having a tough time with a few corals and found they were centered up on my Kessil 360 and getting too much light. My hybrid T5 led fixture makes it hard to move light so I lowered the Kessils intensity down 25% and those corals made a come back. Very slow comeback. I had another instance of a fish picking on a peticular coral, I never noticed because when I am near the tank the fish are thinking food. My son told me and I put a camera on the coral and caught a Chevron Tang eating off that colony. Another thing can be a pest, have you dipped the declining coral?

With perfect parameters and husbandry SPS sometimes declines, that is just the game. 75% of your corals doing well is success in my book.

Good luck figuring it out and fraging the colony and moving to a few different spots might find a happy spot as flow and lighting can effect SPS.

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

I'll take a pic of it when I get home. It's still got polyp extension. And my husband picked it so idk what it's even supposed to look like. I have ReefBreeder LED's maxing at 40% blue and 40% white. Phosphates were 0 this morning, but I need a better test kit.
That particular coral was a fresh cut, so it may have something to do with it. There is new growth around the base so I'm not *terribly* worried... Just rather the nitrates be lower than higher.

brandon429 · Jun 11, 2015

can we see a full tank shot from the OP

if there's a sandbed, its keeping your reserves of detritus in place and if there isn't, the slow build up of detritus is elsewhere, mostly in the rocks possibly, and to me its a rather easy thing to root out in a system. I like sandbeds so i wont be removing mine, yet if i had the goal of pure sps and lower trates id either ditch it or employ the countering methods above. If there is a sandbed at work here, i claim those are great numbers id have expected higher.

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

brandon429 said:
can we see a full tank shot from the OP

if there's a sandbed, its keeping your reserves of detritus in place and if there isn't, the slow build up of detritus is elsewhere, mostly in the rocks possibly, and to me its a rather easy thing to root out in a system. I like sandbeds so i wont be removing mine, yet if i had the goal of pure sps and lower trates id either ditch it or employ the countering methods above. If there is a sandbed at work here, i claim those are great numbers id have expected higher.

I've got quite a bit of flow. Maxspect Gyre that, come to think of it, was the start of this nitrate "spike". It kicked up ALOT of stuff from the rocks & nitrates went up to 20 but I got that under control fairly easily with water changes, heavy skimming, and changing filter socks frequently.
Good point made about the sump, 3FordFamily... It's probably in need of a good vacuuming.
I'm a few minutes from home but will post a FTS when I get there

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

Fuge light is 8W 470 Lumens 5000K LED

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

And here's the unknown SPS

And the birds of paradise that looks a little light to me:

brandon429 · Jun 11, 2015

o man thats nice, really nice

look at the coralline calcification indicating nice age, but contrasted to a sandbed that isnt blackened or spotted with cyano like mine

its opposingly clean, indicates good fellow cleaning habits regularly and/or not much fish bioloading as you mentioned. I personally think you need to feed these sps more and export more, not try and restrict the nitrate further. darkening of the sps, not lightening was indicated by what id read without seeing the nice work here.

for once im not seeing nine tangs swimming around, truly youre trying to bioload balance this for the long haul i just think you need to up feeding and diversify whats in your water column avail to these active feeding food grabbing digesting sps corals. they have access to a little n and a little p, and possibly not much diversity in nutrition due to lack of fish/feed/poop/aggregates/floc association.

feed em is my call, hq food. re evaluate the condition in 8 weeks imo

change water more than ever during this time to export that which is unused by corals, before it breaks down into more nitrate. or, up the ante with filtration catch and hold where you are changing out filter pads more than ever (or rinsing well, export is the action) literally anything that allows you to CPR this tank into stronger sps. i wouldnt try to restrict nutrients, id add whole proteins to the water column consistently but yank them before breakdown

nothing else needs tweaking imo this is very nice setup.

brandon429 · Jun 11, 2015

another side detail from the nice fts is:

its different when you have established, plated sps locked onto substr and then some new frags may be showing lightening or stress

but in this case they are all starting on their journey with no one to indicate what the long term calcification options for SPS have been, coralline being a little more forgiving. this could very well be led adjustment partial bleaching as much as feed restrictions. im seeing no indication of problem nitrates long term from this pic. im seeing quite a bit of high intensity white beaming onto those new frags who are in a life conservation mode from being recently glued on, they arent happy enough to start laying down the telltale basal bulge but that time could be coming. lower light intensity or move em down, imo.

kkgaskin90 · Jun 11, 2015

That's the most encouraging thing I've ever read! Thank you!

What would you recommend feeding? I've got Continuum Ocean Snow, I feed it about twice a week.

This tank I'm doing the opposite of what I did with my first (29g BioCube)... We stocked the first fast and heavy. This one ran the first (just over a) year as a FOWLR. Had an Ich outbreak so it ran fallow 11 weeks. (There's admittedly, an inappropriate Tang... As soon as I can catch her she will get a new, bigger home, but she's TERRIBLY shy. Better since we gave her a friend. But when I approach, she disappears. And super suspicious of a fish trap). Now I'm a snob about what goes in. There's only 3 fish so far... Room for more but my stock list is researched and much more appropriate. Slowly slowly. We upgraded the lighting early April and started adding coral... Which is great except now I'm overthinking EVERYTHING!
Is it happy? Is it struggling? Is it hungry? Are my lights too intense? Not enough? Is the growth rate ok? Do I need a better (insert piece of equipment)? Can't wait to sit down and just enjoy it... Does that ever happen? Lol

brandon429 · Jun 12, 2015

I think it w balance out soon, clearly the rocks and tank were in an ideal condition for a long time im seeing deep purple coloring, no eutrophication issues, all very clean. Having those fish you mentioned provides a nice base for nutrient access for the sps, and regarding that feed im not sure about it its new enough I just hadnt seen it. the accessory feeding the sps get off the fish feeding and waste inclusions along with your feed im sure is just fine for diversity, id really like to consider lessening the light impact on them. they certainly dont appear to be darkening with excess zooxanthellae per excess nutrients issues it was my guess we should lessen the photo intensity on them a bit and let things continue, they are in a system w good service and planning and they'll begin to lay down tissue I bet.

Id search around for some of the best sps feeds (micron size, diversity etc) and consider adding it to the menu, doesnt hurt to spice it up either. I had read not long ago on advancedaquarist perhaps it was or one of the pro blogs that reef nutrition feeds were tested in an excellent study in pocillopora against other feeds and they found direct mass gain in the ones receiving roti pods for example, my point being there are definitely foods that we know sps will actively uptake in some way for a benefit. Many successful sps tanks dont do this, the fish inclusion when not overdone is a really good natural balance for them by association and typically covers the bases.

kkgaskin90 · Jun 13, 2015

I bumped down the lighting intensity last night and shortened the light schedule a bit. Hopefully that helps all around.
I'll definitely look in to other foods, thank you. I'm almost out of the Ocean Snow anyway.

Lost an Anthias last night. Not sure if it was bullied or something else, but it certainly look chewed up and spit out

I quarantine everything! I'm feeling pretty awful about my fish-keeping abilities. We are back to just a Flame Hawkfish and a Hippo tang. Poor lonely Dory. Not sure where to go from here since she just hides without fishy friends.