Getting away with no skimmer

[Pntbll687]

You can run no skimmer.

It's really going to depend on the stocking of the tank and bio load.

I have a 20 long with a 20g sump, no skimmer. But it's only had a small clown and a fire fish. I feed every other day. The bio load is light so I can do without a skimmer. Water changes are done once a month. But I will say that I have about 50lbs if live rock, and have a complete nitrogen cycle in the system.

 

[SlvrZ]

I have a 2006 Ford 500 and I'm only replacing the burned up oil and getting away with no oil changes.

I'll text you guys from the side of the road about September'ish

It'll last a while. I haven't changed the oil in my Z06 Corvette in almost 6 years now. SIX YEARS.

It all just depends on what you wanna stock. An all softy tank isn't really going to be sucking up the big three like a sps tank would...

 

[hart24601]

Comparing oil changes to skimmers.... are we just saying things that have no relevance to the question? I can hold my breath for 30 seconds, check back on me in 30 min. Is that good?

Anywho, as others have said you don't need one, hundreds if not thousands of tanks in the past few years have been going well for years without skimmers, most notably nano tanks due to space and the ease of W/C for export. That being said they are sure a tried and true addition of the tank that I don't think have conclusively demonstrated any downsides to a system. We hear about skimmers removing trace elements and microscopic life, but I don't think that has ever been proven to have any determent to systems with skimmers.

So, skimmers are a good addition for most however not needed. Might want to keep bioload a bit lower if not using one. We are at a place in the hobby where you can run a successful tank with just about any combination, or lack thereof, of equipment you can imagine. Just need to be aware of pros and cons and plan accordingly! I have had a couple SPS only systems that ran without skimmers for several years and there are plenty more examples so it's not too hard. You could even just use purigen or carbon occasionally if you are worried about organic buildup. Just another tool at our disposal.

 

[Wh00pS32]

The 1-2yr longterm effect of NO3 & PO4 will saturate your porous LR. Then you got a mess on your hands.

I've been reefkeeping on and off (mostly on) since 2000, i have never run a skimmer.
Current tank is 4 years old and no NO3 or PO4 problems and i have always been a very heavy feeder.
There are many ways to run a tank and all can be successful.

 

[tthouston]

100% people read your messages in here have the fish tank and everybody know what pro and con if you don't have a skimmer and no water change.
In my case, I try to setup whatever I could for my big tank as a good skimmer, GFO, Carbon reactor, chaeto, UV sterilizer...etc to try to skip do the water change and I still have a few issues here or there. Just imagine, your tank has nothing I list above and it still perfects a few years without the water change, that is difficult to believe it.
What happens if you eat and pee and poop and sleep in the same room WITHOUT CLEAN UP for the whole 2 years?

 

[hart24601]

100% people read your messages in here have the fish tank and everybody know what pro and con if you don't have a skimmer and no water change.
In my case, I try to setup whatever I could for my big tank as a good skimmer, GFO, Carbon reactor, chaeto, UV sterilizer...etc to try to skip do the water change and I still have a few issues here or there. Just imagine, your tank has nothing I list above and it still perfects a few years without the water change, that is difficult to believe it.
What happens if you eat and pee and poop and sleep in the same room WITHOUT CLEAN UP for the whole 2 years?

Not advocating for no w/c but not sure if the 1 room analogy is best, I mean we have a septic tank in our house and our poop and pee gets broken down and enters the water table right away. One could think of a refugium or a sump/filter system the same way.

 

[fishnchip]

I've been running my 32 gallon cube for 8 months now with no skimmer. I don't have a refugium or sump being that it's an all in one. I think you should be fine as long as you don't overstock and keep up with weekly water changes! Best of luck!!

 

[tthouston]

I've been running my 32 gallon cube for 8 months now with no skimmer. I don't have a refugium or sump being that it's an all in one. I think you should be fine as long as you don't overstock and keep up with weekly water changes! Best of luck!!

Agreed. You don't need anything IF you do the water change weekly and it doesn't bother you to do 10 to 15 gallons water change for the 32g display tank, but if your tank is a 220 gallons tank, then I believe you won't do 100 gallons water change per week and you start thinking you need a skimmer.

 

[Orm Embar]

I'd say . . . it depends. If you have alternate means of nutrient export that work well enough, then you can get away with no skimmer. It does require some thoughtful consideration IMHO.

Per Advanced Aquarist's studies, a skimmer will remove 20-35% of dissolved organics. It also provides oxygenation/gas exchange and water movement. I've read that skimmers can negatively impact refugium pod populations, although I don't have any data to support that.

My current tank is skimmerless x 2 years, with nitrate/phosphate levels that (per LFS Elos/Salifert testing) 0.5 for nitrate/0.25 for phosphate. The only nuisance algae that I've had problems with is Valonia, which I did have to use fluconazole for.

If you've balanced your nutrient input (food/fish biomass) against nutrient export & sequestration (live rock +/- live sand, filter sock rinsing every 3 days or less per BRS videos, skimming, macroalgae in a refugium/reactor/scrubber, carbon dosing and/or GFO, partial water changes, other options), then you'll probably be successful. If you're having issues, then you need to either reduce nutrient input (without underfeeding your fish), increase nutrient export, or both.

For cost and low maintenance, a sump with chaeto and a decent LED grow bulb with holder have worked very well for me.

I'd recommend these 2 articles:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium.10/

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/phosphate-in-the-reef-aquarium.9/

 

[Subsea]

This tank has been skimmerless for 25 years. 75G Jaubert Plenum on top with a 30G EcoSystem Mud/macro refugium. Nine months ago, I turned out lights in refugium and seeded with cryptic sponges.

Not only are skimmers not needed, they are very ineffective at removing DOC, dissolved organic carbon. Ken Felderman research on carbon dosing in reef tanks showed effectiveness of filtration systems using DOC as the indicator.

Protein skimmers removed < 35% of DOC
Granulated activated carbon removed 65% of DOC
Biofilter removed 75% of DOC

Considering that protein skimmers remove bacteria, Ken Felderman conclusions indicate that this is a likely cause of “old tank” syndrome.

 

[ajm83]

Agreed. You don't need anything IF you do the water change weekly and it doesn't bother you to do 10 to 15 gallons water change for the 32g display tank, but if your tank is a 220 gallons tank, then I believe you won't do 100 gallons water change per week and you start thinking you need a skimmer.

depends on the tank, i'm doing no water changes, skimmer off and still struggling with low nutrients. I dose phosphate otherwise it'll be 0 (hanna ulr) in a couple of days.

 

[SashimiTurtle]

I have a 2006 Ford 500 and I'm only replacing the burned up oil and getting away with no oil changes.

I'll text you guys from the side of the road about September'ish

Bad analogy.

Triton doesn't even recomend ZERO water changes. Its reduced, extended, and sometimes not needed, but you sample water and send off for ICP testing to check and make sure parameters are within tolerances.

The exact same thing that you do with a long dain oil interval. You have a really powerful filtering system and a high quality synthetic oil that does not break down in viscosity as easily as conventional oil. Every so many thousand miles you get an oil sample and send it off for testing to check that all parameters are within tollerances.

Simply driving 30,000 miles on your factory oil filter and conventional motor oil will work the same as never changing water in your reef without having the proper filtering system and testing. They'll probably both smoke amd lock up.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Ken Felderman research on carbon dosing in reef tanks showed effectiveness of filtration systems using DOC as the indicator.

Protein skimmers removed < 35% of DOC
Granulated activated carbon removed 65% of DOC
Biofilter removed 75% of DOC

Considering that protein skimmers remove bacteria, Ken Felderman conclusions indicate that this is a likely cause of “old tank” syndrome.

K. Feldman found that -
skimmers remove 20 to 35% of the post-feeding TOC present.

Granulated Activated Carbon 60 - 85% of the TOC present.

Natural biological filtration - bacteria and other microbes, 50% or more of the post-feeding TOC

 

[Sir Chris]

I can say that I ran no skimmer for one year until I was losing SPS coral From po4. Soooo started my diy builds and 3 years later here it is. I have a 24” hood I’m wiring now cause it toasted and the new tank doesn’t need it as I have 2 lights soon a ATI but they went up 130$ this year. Weird. But regardless you can run with softies in some LPS with no skimmer but it’s a road I will not take. I purchased a curve 5 for the new tank vs diy 1.

 

[Sir Chris]

Bad analogy.

Triton doesn't even recomend ZERO water changes. Its reduced, extended, and sometimes not needed, but you sample water and send off for ICP testing to check and make sure parameters are within tolerances.

The exact same thing that you do with a long dain oil interval. You have a really powerful filtering system and a high quality synthetic oil that does not break down in viscosity as easily as conventional oil. Every so many thousand miles you get an oil sample and send it off for testing to check that all parameters are within tollerances.

Simply driving 30,000 miles on your factory oil filter and conventional motor oil will work the same as never changing water in your reef without having the proper filtering system and testing. They'll probably both smoke amd lock up.

I’m a tech and this is epic!!!! Quality oil should b changed 4K miles if u love ur car or have a boosted 2j... or if u don’t care then look at ur sticker on ur windshield or hit tripA when u go 2 jiffy lube and they add styrofoam beads so u lock ur motor up and go back witha head scratcher. Being a technician has helped me a lot with tanks. Dynamics 2 science. And love it!!!!! And love ripping off people’s head gaskets that overheated there cars thinking HOT ment they have a sweet hottt new ride.... hhha. It’s just good fun. I don’t mean issue

 

[Lasse]

To compare cars or your own living room with a working ecosystem is rather pointless. If you should compare an working aquaria with anything - you should compare with mother earth. And she runs skimmerless I have run a lot of nanos and aquariums without a skimmer for years. I have got some experiences with this. It works very well but one backslash with mature aquariums (a high load of corals) is that the same thing can happen as with very well planted freshwater aquariums. During night time - the consumption of oxygen can be very high leading to an oxygen defiency. It has happen to me in a very well "planted" reef of around 25 gallon. I lost a lot of fishes that night. In this case - a skimmer works as a gas exchanger and can be able to maintain an oxygen level around 80 - 90 % during night time. There is one article where someone have tested this and shown that a skimmer maintain a level of 80 % saturation of oxygen during night time. I do not remember where I read it - maybe @Sallstrom remember the article (he is younger than me ) There is a lot of examples that show that a good skimmer can both put in and take away CO2 from the water. It is probably the same with ammonia gas (ammoniac, NH3)

IMO - the skimmer is mostly a gas exchanger equipment - as some pointed out - the nutrient export from skimmer is limited - you need to use other methods.

In my present aquaria - I use a skimmer in order to serve as a gas exchanger - I´m not collecting any skimmate - it goes back to the return chamber of my sump and up to the aquaria again.

For a prolonged period (> one year) I run the skimmer very dry - I clean the skimmer cup every 2 to 3 months. Since around 2 months ago - I run the skimmer at max (both pump and air intake) and let the skimate going back. And yes I do not do any WC. I run without WC for one year - in January I had to fix my remote DSB and did a 50 % WC. Since that - no WC again.

I would gladly run without a skimmer if I could fix the gas exchange in another way - with a trickling filter or a downstream skimmer (they are the same construction). But for now - the skimmer is my only option.

Honestly - I have a problem with PO4 and NO3 - they are to low and I need to dose PO4 and NO3 every day. And the stocking is not ideal either - around 40 fishes - 80 gallon. + 40 hermits, + 70 snails. See my build thread in order to understand how awful this aquarium look like because the skimmate goes back and no WC.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sallstrom]

To compare cars or your own living room with a working ecosystem is rather pointless. If you should compare an working aquaria with anything - you should compare with mother earth. And she runs skimmerless I have run a lot of nanos and aquariums without a skimmer for years. I have got some experiences with this. It works very well but one backslash with mature aquariums (a high load of corals) is that the same thing can happen as with very well planted freshwater aquariums. During night time - the consumption of oxygen can be very high leading to an oxygen defiency. It has happen to me in a very well "planted" reef of around 25 gallon. I lost a lot of fishes that night. In this case - a skimmer works as a gas exchanger and can be able to maintain an oxygen level around 80 - 90 % during night time. There is one article where someone have tested this and shown that a skimmer maintain a level of 80 % saturation of oxygen during night time. I do not remember where I read it - maybe @Sallstrom remember the article (he is younger than me ) There is a lot of examples that show that a good skimmer can both put in and take away CO2 from the water. It is probably the same with ammonia gas (ammoniac, NH3)

IMO - the skimmer is mostly a gas exchanger equipment - as some pointed out - the nutrient export from skimmer is limited - you need to use other methods.

In my present aquaria - I use a skimmer in order to serve as a gas exchanger - I´m not collecting any skimmate - it goes back to the return chamber of my sump and up to the aquaria again.

For a prolonged period (> one year) I run the skimmer very dry - I clean the skimmer cup every 2 to 3 months. Since around 2 months ago - I run the skimmer at max (both pump and air intake) and let the skimate going back. And yes I do not do any WC. I run without WC for one year - in January I had to fix my remote DSB and did a 50 % WC. Since that - no WC again.

I would gladly run without a skimmer if I could fix the gas exchange in another way - with a trickling filter or a downstream skimmer (they are the same construction). But for now - the skimmer is my only option.

Honestly - I have a problem with PO4 and NO3 - they are to low and I need to dose PO4 and NO3 every day. And the stocking is not ideal either - around 40 fishes - 80 gallon. + 40 hermits, + 70 snails. See my build thread in order to understand how awful this aquarium look like because the skimmate goes back and no WC.

Sincerely Lasse

I did a quick search and found this:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/eb/index.htm

Not sure if that's the one you meant, but the do test DO in small tanks with skimmer/no skimmer/air stone etc. Might be some good info!

I do think Mother Earth runs her skimmer now and then. Check the beach after a storm

/ David

 

[ZoWhat]

To each its own... run your tank the way you want to. WCs are the basis of any reef husbandry training......

But if you want to go around pumping your chest out bragging you do zero WCs....have at it. Wc...

 

[theMeat]

The skimmer will make room for more bio load, and the biggest reason for running one is oxygenation

 

[BestMomEver]

Most of the successful examples I have seen and read about talk about removing the skimmer from an established system. I started my 700 litre system with no skimmer mainly because I thought I'd cycle the tank then add the skimmer once I had the funds. It was a bit of a disaster.

I think the key might be a stable, bio-diverse, established system and corals that do well in moderately high nutrient environments.

This brings up a very good point which, in turn, makes me curious. I can’t, no matter how hard I try, bring nitrates and phosphates above zero. Translation... little to no nutrients. Would removing my skimmer solve this or would that be a huge mistake?