Getting ready to give up on SPS/Acros.

[OriginalUserName]

I can't keep SPS alive in my new tank to save my life. My old cube saw some decent success with many frags encrusting and coloring up well. Those died on transfer to my new tank. The new tank has been up since July, started with dry rock cycled for 2 months and seeded with a couple piece of LR from my old tank. SPS comes in, looks great for a couple weeks then either RTN or nice slow STN. I brought back 4 acros from my trip to WWC and only 1 is left and it is slowly losing tissue. (FWIW the tissue is pretty brown so it doesn't seem to be bleaching). I gave that a few weeks assuming those losses were due to my low nitrates. Ordered a few pieces from battlecorals. 1 didn't do well in shipping but the other 4 looked great, and did so until today. This morning they looked good but after getting home 2 are completely RTNed.

Everything is run on apex. I do 10% water changes each week via my DOS (2.5 gallons a night). I don't dose 2 part right now because the water changes keep up with dKh demand but my Dos can be turned on anytime for that. I don't test calcium often but when I do it's in line. dKh stays in the 7.8 to 8.4 range (I use Red Sea blue bucket salt). Tank has tons of coraline growth and plenty of other life like tubeworms and whatnot. Fuge produces good amounts of chaeto and pods. I had my skimmer off for a bit as my nitrates were close to zero but now I'm around the 10 ppt range, also upped my feeding. I originally dialed my light intensity in using my Seneye to hit about 300 par at the top of the water. I dialed that down a bit as a few SPS had seemed to be bleaching somewhat so I was down to 60% max intensity. Yesterday I increased everything by 5%. I suppose that could explain the two corals but that seems a drastic response given that the par they are receiving is far lower than what they would have seen in the vendor tanks.

Tank - red sea reefer 650, 140 gallons
salinity is 35ppm and pretty stable. Today I'm reading 34 but I believe that is a "high" 34 if that makes sense
Nitrates are at 10
temp stays very stable at around 77.5
I can't recall my phosphates but they test in the very low range
Flow is provided by the Cor-20 return, 2 XF250 gyres, and 2 WAVs
Lighting is 2 AP700s mounted 15 inches above water line (and corals are mostly midway in tank)
I run carbon occasionally, but not in the past several weeks and no other media.
I run a 6 stage RODI with zero TDS on the output.
Fish are happy. Inverts are happy. Zoas growing and happy. Chalices are growing and happy. 2 Psammacoras from the old tank lost some tissue early on but have stabilized and at least look good, if they aren't seeing much growth. Several blastos are also doing great.
I also have been target feeding the acros with Brightwell's aminos and reef chili.

I know the rule of thumb is stability, but I think all things considered my tank is pretty stable. Tweaks always need to happen as corals grow or you lose water from the skimmer cup etc. but no major alk swings, no temp drops, no big salinity swings, not messing with lights (much). I'm pretty much at a loss about what I'm doing wrong. I haven't been dipping my new corals lately as that adds stress, my sources are likely pretty clean, and since I don't have any SPS in the tank there is nothing to protect. Right now I have 2 acros that still look good and a ratty looking stylo that has stuck with me since the beginning. Sorry for the wall of text, just feeling hopeless in my goal of doing a nice Acro heavy tank. I don't even want to think about how much money I've wasted on corals and the expensive equipment to support them. I never struggled with softies or LPS at all. I am struggling with bubble algae but my issues predate that. (I'm not doing anything drastic to combat it)
My glass is dirty but I'm too annoyed to deal with it right now. Edit, and my stand is a piece of junk that will need to be replaced so there is that.

My new white corals. This guy looked a little light from day one but I placed it in the bottom 1/3 of the tank.

This was a very good looking yellow milli until this afternoon.


Two remaining acros. I turned the whites up for the pics but they don't look light at all in person, more browned out really.


B**bies chalice and the other guy both look good and have doubled or tripled in size.

Happy zoas/palys and stable psamacora and slow growing but beautiful chalice.

The AIOs have grown from about 4 polyps.

Knock on wood, this is my first gonipora and so far it looks great.

 

[stephj03]

This might sound a little weird, but I think you have a phosphate source at play even though your test shows a low value.

There’s a decent amount of algae on your rocks. My guess would be the rock is leaching it out.

IMO a low test value in the presence of good algae/macro growth means they are sequestering it before it accumulates in the water column, but only after it’s ticked off your SPS.

I would bet GFO/additional sequestration would help you provided you keep nitrates up.

HTH

 

[29bonsaireef]

How old is the system? If it is already well established, 12months at the least. The bubble algae may be outcompeting the corals for nutrients. JMO

 

[John3]

I think you rock is just too new since it was dry rock. True live rock seems to do better with SPS sooner but dry rock I think the 12-18 month rule seems to normally apply.

 

[Aaron-A2]

I'm going to go along with the others and say your algae is out-competing your coral for nutrients. That's a LOT of bubble algae on your rocks, so I would focus on fixing those issues first and that may resolve your SPS issue.

 

[Brad Miller]

Same as all stated above

 

[OriginalUserName]

How old is the system? If it is already well established, 12months at the least. The bubble algae may be outcompeting the corals for nutrients. JMO

I'm coming up on 7 months.

If it is the algae, how can I starve it out without nuking the corals I do have? My foxface seems to eat some and I've added 6 emerald crabs to help out.

Previously I had a bryopsis issue and flucanozol resolved that. Should I try to starve it out or try something like reef flux or vibrant?

Perhaps I'll monitor my phosphates more closely. I wouldn't expect phosphate leaching from this rock (reef cleaners) but you never know I suppose. Phosphates are something I didn't really worry about in my old tank. Maybe that is my mistske.

 

[Backreefing]

New rock is always risky , but remember the larger the tank the longer it takes to completely cycle in . Especially if the sand is new to . But it will happen. Get some CUC going , large turbos are sent from heaven.

 

[stephj03]

I wouldn’t think it’s the algae itself that is a problem. It’s whatever source of excess nutrients is feeding it.

 

[stephj03]

The other thing would be to get an ICP test done to see if you have heavy metals or some other imbalance. I would put that on your list of things to do.

 

[Phil D.]

I have found that the adage of increasing your Magnesium levels is a true fact. Whenever I have had algae issues, I have always boosted my Magnesium levels up to 1500 and the algae goes away after 2 weeks or so.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Your acros sound like they’re starving from not enough light. They need at least 200 par to survive. The majority of their energy comes from sugars produced by photosynthesis, not nutrients in the water column. Crank your lights up.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Your tank is still very new.
I never had much luck with sps using kessils. Kessils are awesome if you have soft corals and lps.
If you want really want to keep sps I would let the tank cycle for a whole year and add some t5 lights. If you don’t want to add t5 then just keep lps and soft corals.

 

[OriginalUserName]

I'll aim for a ICP test as well. I have considered that.

Your tank is still very new.
I never had much luck with sps using kessils. Kessils are awesome if you have soft corals and lps.
If you want really want to keep sps I would let the tank cycle for a whole year and add some t5 lights. If you don’t want to add t5 then just keep lps and soft corals.

I'm actually trying to build a hybrid fixture that will add two T5s. Just have not had the time.

 

[stephj03]

I'll aim for a ICP test as well. I have considered that.
I'm actually trying to build a hybrid fixture that will add two T5s. Just have not had the time.

A lot of ppl are going to disagree with me on this but I think you might see a night and day difference after adding T5s. I decided to light my current tank with all LED and am always feeling like if everything else isn’t on point my acros will tell m they hate me while flipping off my lights.

Unfortunately we’re running out of hobbyists that were drinking age or older before LED came out.

And there is a growing population of successful LED reefs that keep everything super stable.

Rewind the tape to 2007 and nobody had the colors that LEDs brought us, but a lot of ppl were having a ton of success with inferior gear and fewer tests.

Suffice to say and Aquatic life hybrid rig might be the best thing you buy all yr IMO.

 

[KrisReef]

I would stop target feeding the sps and other corals. That tank appears to have plenty of food for coral.
Also curious what else is
Leaching from the rock? ICP for sure.
Water flow could be another issue?
Hope you figure this out.
Gl.

 

[stephj03]

I would stop target feeding the sps and other corals. That tank appears to have plenty of food for coral.
Also curious what else is
Leaching from the rock? ICP for sure.
Water flow could be another issue?
Hope you figure this out.
Gl.

I agree with this. Going back to my first post you need to balance what you see in the test results with what you see in your tank and through your corals.

Your tests have been low, which is why you’ve got a lot of advice about your corals starving and needing more nutrients. But. Look at the other corals in your system.

If the algae or other export were stripping nutrients out, it’s unlikely that zoos/polyps/chalices would be thriving and multiplying like they are.

IME softies/LPS will starve out or stall before SPS. This tells me that whatever is going on is something SPS are a lot more sensitive to than zoas/LPS.

Somehow your zoas are getting fed well enough to take off. They require less light, more nutrients and can potentially accommodate higher levels of heavy metals while still thriving.

I think your answer is somehow not enough light, too much phosphate generation/leaching or some sort of corrosion.

And IMO the trade off for the colors that LEDs pull is greater sensitivity to everything.

 

[BigRich]

I would immediately do a major water change, do 25%. The amount of algae you have growing tells you something(nitrates/phosphates) is out of control. Start monitoring your phosphates/nitrates daily. I'm a fan of algae scrubbers, I like Santa Monica for them but you can pick any brand or DIY. Water changes with your RODI water and quality salt is your best friend right now. I wouldn't add any other corals until you get that algae to stop growing. Switch to feeding fish every other day, don't target feed corals at this point. Water changes, filter sock/floss changing will get you headed in the right direction. Once we start to see phosphate/nitrate numbers you can decide if you want to go at it naturally via water changes/algae scrubber/etc or chemically with GFO/one of the many phosphate chemicals. Smooth, slow, and the basics(water changes) is fast in this hobby. Best of luck, Rich

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Crank your lights up. I use only leds and I’m blasting my acros with 500-300 par.

 

[BigRich]

Crank your lights up. I use only leds and I’m blasting my acros with 500-300 par.

Wow that's some serious PAR. If you decide you want higher PAR, do it very slowly, like 5-10% brighter a week or two, and watch how the corals react. IMO only thing more PAR is going to do for you right now is create more algae. The highest PAR level in my tank is 350-375. Truth is some sps do best in 200 PAR some like the 350-400PAR. I just think you have to figure out what's going on chemically with your tank before doing anything with PAR.