Getting ready to give up on SPS/Acros.

[Charlie’s Frags]

Wow that's some serious PAR. If you decide you want higher PAR, do it very slowly, like 5-10% brighter a week or two, and watch how the corals react. IMO only thing more PAR is going to do for you right now is create more algae. The highest PAR level in my tank is 350-375. Truth is some sps do best in 200 PAR some like the 350-400PAR. I just think you have to figure out what's going on chemically with your tank before doing anything with PAR.

It doesn’t sound like his acros were getting close to 200 par if he was measuring 300 at the waters surface. Acros slowly fade then wither away when they are not getting enough light(starving). Doesn’t matter if there is algae or no algae. All acros will slowly die, like OP described, if they’re not getting enough light. I know because I went through this last year before I got a par meter.

 

[Aaron-A2]

On the topic of PAR, I would also say that certain SPS color up differently under lower or higher PAR. Vivid Confetti for example can be all pink under higher light, but in lower light you get many more base colors and imo is preferred.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

A couple things: You're getting a lot of contrary advice here so you're going to have to do some of your own research and decide which to trust. So here is my opinion:

Bubble Algae - That stuff is the devil and I've tried everything including Fox Face, Tangs, Emerald Crabs, etc. The only thing that worked for me was Vibrant. If you use it, go VERY slow and know that it will take weeks or months to completely go away. Don't expect an overnight miracle.

Algae - I believe you have a Phosphate/Nitrate issue because of the ridiculous amount of algae. This is common with a new tank, so don't freak out and try a bunch of miracle cures like massive water changes and tons of reactor media. I'd start with a little GFO and see how it goes. You might also want to limit your feeding.

Bleaching - That's not bleaching, that's RTN/STN. Those are a goner I'm afraid. I had to laugh when I saw those pics. I've seen that too many times in my tank when I was starting out.

Lighting - I agree with those who say you don't have enough lighting for acros. 300 par at the surface ain't gonna cut it. My PAR is 350-500 at the acros. I don't even know what it is at the surface but far higher. IMO, most acros love light, the more the better. There are a few who like a bit lower PAR, but not as low as what you have. They also like coverage and those little pucks centered on the tank won't provide that for them. I'd suggesting adding a couple T5s on either side if you want to keep those lights, or just replace the lighting with something better. You can achieve good coverage with LED, but you will generally need double recommended. T5 provides better coverage at lower cost which is why many acro tanks have them. Many people who claim to do just fine with acros and LEDs run T5s as supplementation. I wonder if it's really the LEDs growing the coral, or the T5 supplements...

New Tank Syndrome - This pretty much covers all of the above. Your tank is new, too new for acros IMO. There is a lot of debate on this one, but I wouldn't even think of trying an acro in that tank until you hit the 12 month mark, possibly a little longer. Starting with dry rock (I prefer dry rock), extends the tank aging process. Try out a birdsnest or monti, but stay away from acros. You're just burning up your money until then. I know you don't want to hear that, I didn't either my first year. But after burning hundreds of dollars on acros which didn't make it, I know it to be true.

Don't give up!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

On the topic of PAR, I would also say that certain SPS color up differently under lower or higher PAR. Vivid Confetti for example can be all pink under higher light, but in lower light you get many more base colors and imo is preferred.

I agree, but acros require a minimum amount of par to survive. If the OP is measuring 300 par at the surface, it is likely that the rocks are receiving less than 200 par.

 

[jda]

Looks like a dry-rock tank. These can take up to two years before they are ready to really take off.
https://reefbuilders.com/2017/07/08/revisiting-my-elos-tank-after-18-months/

Get some urchins to help with the algae. You can get Florida pincushions pretty reasonably priced from ReefTopia.

The kessils are toys for a acropora and larger tank with low par and horrible spread. Don't confuse other LED success with these, nor with success of Kessils over smaller tanks.

Skim more. Get a second skimmer. Make sure that you have a good skimmer for real (my apologies if I missed what you have) - most people think that they have a good skimmer, when it is just so-so.

Don't rule out using media (GFO, Al Oxide) to slowly lower the P from the rocks if you want to keep coral too... if you have no corals, then you can go faster. This is the cost of dry rock that the retailers or BRS videos oft forget to tell you about. You could need a 5 gallon bucket of it in the end.

 

[Aaron-A2]

I agree, but acros require a minimum amount of par to survive. If the OP is measuring 300 par at the surface, it is likely that the rocks are receiving less than 200 par.

Oh, agreed. I was talking in more general terms. I know that at least in my example though, confetti at 200 par gets those better base colors and tables, but that's just coincidence

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Oh, agreed. I was talking in more general terms. I know that at least in my example though, confetti at 200 par gets those better base colors and tables, but that's just coincidence

I hope the OP didn’t have a confetti in there

 

[Thales]

I do not think light is your issue. The corals lost tissue which seems bacterial or chemical, not light related. I don’t know where people are getting tha tminimum of 200 par thing, that seems weird, so I would like to see some source material.
I think trying to starve algae doesn’t make sense. There are tons of tanks with low nutrient values and lots of algae and to a of tanks with hig nutrient values and no algae. If you have a filter sock, I would just scrape the bubble algae and let it collect in the sock. The idea that popping the bubbles causes more algae is an old reefers tale. Or, get a fish that eats it - which is hit or miss.
Sounds like some of the spa cake in tonyour tank already stressed, so you might have been fighting an uphill battle. I would run carbon in case there are any alleopathic nasties In the water, and just for general cleanup. Then I would snag some robust sps for local reefers and work with them successfully before spending any big money on other corals. New tanks can be weird.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I do not think light is your issue. The corals lost tissue which seems bacterial or chemical, not light related. I don’t know where people are getting tha tminimum of 200 par thing, that seems weird, so I would like to see some source material.
I think trying to starve algae doesn’t make sense. There are tons of tanks with low nutrient values and lots of algae and to a of tanks with hig nutrient values and no algae. If you have a filter sock, I would just scrape the bubble algae and let it collect in the sock. The idea that popping the bubbles causes more algae is an old reefers tale. Or, get a fish that eats it - which is hit or miss.
Sounds like some of the spa cake in tonyour tank already stressed, so you might have been fighting an uphill battle. I would run carbon in case there are any alleopathic nasties In the water, and just for general cleanup. Then I would snag some robust sps for local reefers and work with them successfully before spending any big money on other corals. New tanks can be weird.

You’re correct about the tissue necrosis usually being a bacterial infection (vibrio), but we all have this bacteria in our tanks, kitchen sinks, on our skin, etc. Acros become valnurable to this infection when they are stressed, and a lack of sufficient lighting will definitely stress an acro. So will too much light, but that usually happens quicker. The OP described that the acros seem to look fine for a couple weeks then they “bleach” or the tissue starts to necrose.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Start looking at different types of corals and revisit SPS frags after 2 years.

I have gone through 3 tanks in my lifetime; every single time it completely changes after 2 years for the better if you stick with it. My current tank is an SPS explosion to where I literally don't have room in my 96x20x24 to add a single frag. 2 years ago I was struggling to get a green slimer to not die within a week.

Bacteria colonies are very hard to understand in this hobby, there is more to your water than po4, no3, calc, alk and mag. IF it was as easy as keeping those in check coral prices would be low because there would be so much availability of frags.

Just looking at your rocks i'd say you have a nutrient problem regardless of what your test kits say.

 

[cab acro]

Man, I can relate to the pain of loosing corals, but I must say you got a lot of good advise and some not so good. - get rid of the algae first/ let tank mature and keep everything stable No drastic changes to water or lighting/ add the T5'S / I can tell you I went through a lot of expensive learning as well. I youtubed a visit to Jason Fox house and let me tell you what a lesson- blue/ blue/ blue/ water changes/ water changes/ water changes. You did right by not dipping your corals but also start them out on the bottom and gradually lift to proper placement. Don't over think it to much because this was my expensive lesson doing this and doing that. Stability. watch video 360 over and out

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was once there. You have a nice tank and I swear by the saying" Never let a tank kick your butt ! "
Now I can grow anything. What did I do different? I added Miracle juice. . . LOl - Just kidding. I will tell you what I did different but P{LEASE TAKE it to heart and not use it as a recipe for success, but it worked. This tank is a 360g.
- I focused on blues rather than white and got the very best lights in variety. I run 85% blue and 18% white and 2$ red and green. I tuned down the water pumps/gyres to moderate flow. I took temperature to 78.5 and went to 4 part dosing. I add Korallen Zucht 4 part 1X per week per bottle recommendations and potassium, iron, kalium, KH, iodide and aminos daily at a few drops.
That's it and I have some beauties going. No they don't grow rapidly BUT . . . . THEY'RE ALIVE !!!!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Man, I can relate to the pain of loosing corals, but I must say you got a lot of good advise and some not so good. - get rid of the algae first/ let tank mature and keep everything stable No drastic changes to water or lighting/ add the T5'S / I can tell you I went through a lot of expensive learning as well. I youtubed a visit to Jason Fox house and let me tell you what a lesson- blue/ blue/ blue/ water changes/ water changes/ water changes. You did right by not dipping your corals but also start them out on the bottom and gradually lift to proper placement. Don't over think it to much because this was my expensive lesson doing this and doing that. Stability. watch video 360 over and out

500-350 Par LED only
No gfo No Skimmer
No3 0.25
Po4 0.035
Cal 410
Alk 7.8
Mag 1350

 

[golfer88]

I can't keep SPS alive in my new tank to save my life. My old cube saw some decent success with many frags encrusting and coloring up well. Those died on transfer to my new tank. The new tank has been up since July, started with dry rock cycled for 2 months and seeded with a couple piece of LR from my old tank. SPS comes in, looks great for a couple weeks then either RTN or nice slow STN. I brought back 4 acros from my trip to WWC and only 1 is left and it is slowly losing tissue. (FWIW the tissue is pretty brown so it doesn't seem to be bleaching). I gave that a few weeks assuming those losses were due to my low nitrates. Ordered a few pieces from battlecorals. 1 didn't do well in shipping but the other 4 looked great, and did so until today. This morning they looked good but after getting home 2 are completely RTNed.

Everything is run on apex. I do 10% water changes each week via my DOS (2.5 gallons a night). I don't dose 2 part right now because the water changes keep up with dKh demand but my Dos can be turned on anytime for that. I don't test calcium often but when I do it's in line. dKh stays in the 7.8 to 8.4 range (I use Red Sea blue bucket salt). Tank has tons of coraline growth and plenty of other life like tubeworms and whatnot. Fuge produces good amounts of chaeto and pods. I had my skimmer off for a bit as my nitrates were close to zero but now I'm around the 10 ppt range, also upped my feeding. I originally dialed my light intensity in using my Seneye to hit about 300 par at the top of the water. I dialed that down a bit as a few SPS had seemed to be bleaching somewhat so I was down to 60% max intensity. Yesterday I increased everything by 5%. I suppose that could explain the two corals but that seems a drastic response given that the par they are receiving is far lower than what they would have seen in the vendor tanks.

Tank - red sea reefer 650, 140 gallons
salinity is 35ppm and pretty stable. Today I'm reading 34 but I believe that is a "high" 34 if that makes sense
Nitrates are at 10
temp stays very stable at around 77.5
I can't recall my phosphates but they test in the very low range
Flow is provided by the Cor-20 return, 2 XF250 gyres, and 2 WAVs
Lighting is 2 AP700s mounted 15 inches above water line (and corals are mostly midway in tank)
I run carbon occasionally, but not in the past several weeks and no other media.
I run a 6 stage RODI with zero TDS on the output.
Fish are happy. Inverts are happy. Zoas growing and happy. Chalices are growing and happy. 2 Psammacoras from the old tank lost some tissue early on but have stabilized and at least look good, if they aren't seeing much growth. Several blastos are also doing great.
I also have been target feeding the acros with Brightwell's aminos and reef chili.

I know the rule of thumb is stability, but I think all things considered my tank is pretty stable. Tweaks always need to happen as corals grow or you lose water from the skimmer cup etc. but no major alk swings, no temp drops, no big salinity swings, not messing with lights (much). I'm pretty much at a loss about what I'm doing wrong. I haven't been dipping my new corals lately as that adds stress, my sources are likely pretty clean, and since I don't have any SPS in the tank there is nothing to protect. Right now I have 2 acros that still look good and a ratty looking stylo that has stuck with me since the beginning. Sorry for the wall of text, just feeling hopeless in my goal of doing a nice Acro heavy tank. I don't even want to think about how much money I've wasted on corals and the expensive equipment to support them. I never struggled with softies or LPS at all. I am struggling with bubble algae but my issues predate that. (I'm not doing anything drastic to combat it)
My glass is dirty but I'm too annoyed to deal with it right now. Edit, and my stand is a piece of junk that will need to be replaced so there is that.

My new white corals. This guy looked a little light from day one but I placed it in the bottom 1/3 of the tank.

This was a very good looking yellow milli until this afternoon.


Two remaining acros. I turned the whites up for the pics but they don't look light at all in person, more browned out really.


B**bies chalice and the other guy both look good and have doubled or tripled in size.

Happy zoas/palys and stable psamacora and slow growing but beautiful chalice.

The AIOs have grown from about 4 polyps.

Knock on wood, this is my first gonipora and so far it looks great.

Those aois are very light blue compared to mine.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Those aois are very light blue compared to mine.

I don’t see any blue

 

[golfer88]

Do you know what wwc aoi zoas look like?

I don’t see any blue

 

[golfer88]

Here’s what they look like

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Here’s what they look like

My bad. I must of had a tiny stroke because my brain read blue acros. My apologies.
I need to read better!!!!!

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Here’s what they look like

I think the OP had too much white and no filter in his pic. They look similar, but yes, they look very pale in comparison to yours.

 

[Seminoles76]

Definitely new tank syndrome that’s been started with all dry rock IMO.

I would start dosing a bacteria source (KZ, Microbacter, Prodibio, etc.), to help with new tank type issues. Get a couple urchins and turbos to take care of your algae.

I would love to see BRS start a dry rock tank with no bacteria source and then compare the success of it to their KZ 160 tanks success. My money would be that the non KZ dry rock tank would come nowhere close to the success of the KZ tank success in the first 18 months. So, what I’m saying is do some research on bacteria and then add accordingly. It doesn’t have to be a complete system like KZ and could be as simple as Microbacter7.

Add T5 like folks are saying and make the tubes all Bplus or get off the Kessil all together.

Use a good, reliable, powerful skimmer. Feed heavy and then feed some more all while managing your nutrient levels.

If you start with all dry rock, you in no way have to wait two years before adding SPS. I am convinced though that the average reefer would benefit greatly by adding bacteria during the first two years of the tank.

Hope you get it sorted out.