Getting Ready to start Nopox and need advice.

[redfishbluefish]

We commonly quote the Redfield Ratio of 16 to 1 of nitrogen to phosphorus. However, note that this ratio came from a specific algae, and other organisms may have differing ratios. I can remember some other organism (that I can't remember) having a 50 to 1 ratio. So it's fair to say it's a bunch of nitrogen to a little of phosphorus. Also note that I stated nitrogen and phosphorus, not nitrate and phosphate.

You will know more specifically when you get one of those numbers near zero, and the other is still high. At this point the carbon dosing has "stalled"

 

[glb]

I have the bacteria 'slime' in my sump. Problem is a lot of it decided to live in my filter sock. When I clean the sock is this going to be a problem? I'm down to 3ml today and after tomorrow will go down to 2. Also, when I change the water (I do this from the sump), it will suck out some of the slime too. How do I do maintenance without causing a problem?

 

[redfishbluefish]

You want to "suck out the slime." You are just assisting in exporting those bacteria that have utilized the N and P (and C) to ultimately lower your nitrate and phosphate numbers. So change out that sock and suck out that slime! Believe me, more bacteria will grow.

 

[glb]

You want to "suck out the slime." You are just assisting in exporting those bacteria that have utilized the N and P (and C) to ultimately lower your nitrate and phosphate numbers. So change out that sock and suck out that slime! Believe me, more bacteria will grow.

Cool. I Nopox. Can I overstock my tank over time (within reason) with the nitrates/Phosphates under control? I love fishies.

 

[mcarroll]

What is the correct ratio for no3 to po4?

Correct is what is effective and what is not problematic. Not being sly, that's the truth of it.

Numbers I've been giving out to help with dinoflagellates is actually a pretty standard recommended range:

PO4: ≥0.10 ppm
NO3: ≥5-10 ppm

I Nopox. Can I overstock my tank over time (within reason) with the nitrates/Phosphates under control? I love fishies.

There's no need to conflate love for managing the tank with love for taking care of the animal.

Nutrient control isn't for the animals when you get down to it anyway. Worried? More on this below.

Look at @Paul B's stocking level in his "little" 90 Gallon. Ask him what his nutrient levels are like. Mirror his nutrient control system and your fish will live forever. (Lots of "big names" have very high nutrient levels in their tanks.)

For maximum goodness, you should avoid nutrient control that involves anything other than the critters in your tank, IMO.

Something to consider is why you're so worried about nutrients in the first place.

I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong!), but more than likely you're worried like everyone else about an algae bloom.

Convention tells you that controlling nutrients is supposed to prevent blooms and I guess to help reduce the worry.

Tell me if you've ever seen someone practicing "nutrient control" that also has an algae bloom. Since that's not a hard combination to find (nearly every algae thread on the internet!) you have to know that nutrient control isn't the answer.

@Paul B's tank and all the others like it – predominantly mature tanks run by mature reefers – work without getting algae blooms because they don't get spikes in nutrients. A disturbance such as a large spike or drop in nutrients is required to start an algae bloom. (Yes, I said spike or drop.) Merely having high nutrient levels (but no spike or disturbance) is not sufficient to kick off an algae bloom.

• They don't add large quantities of fish or corals all at once.
• They feed very consistently, so there's pretty much never a "starvation moment" in their tank.
• Their tank having never been starved means that their microbial food webs are very strong and well developed.
• Carbon dosing skews the microbial food web in a bad way so that if there is ever a spike or crash in nutrients, there's a high likelihood of a harmful algae bloom vs something easy like hair algae.
  
• Fast growing algae like hair algae are the most attractive to grazers....and they require a consistent nutrient source.
• Algae that is compatible with "nutrient control" is rarely palatable to grazers. Wanna do more cleaning by hand? Go for nutrient control!
• They also use a crew of grazers to keep algae down in the display, and most use skimming and either a refugium or ATS to grow algae and remove some nutrients "outside the tank".
• Cover up as much available growing space on dead rock as possible – grow as much coral, etc as you can.

 

[glb]

Correct is what is effective and what is not problematic. Not being sly, that's the truth of it.

Numbers I've been giving out to help with dinoflagellates is actually a pretty standard recommended range:

PO4: ≥0.10 ppm
NO3: ≥5-10 ppm



There's no need to conflate love for managing the tank with love for taking care of the animal.

Nutrient control isn't for the animals when you get down to it anyway. Worried? More on this below.

Look at @Paul B's stocking level in his "little" 90 Gallon. Ask him what his nutrient levels are like. Mirror his nutrient control system and your fish will live forever. (Lots of "big names" have very high nutrient levels in their tanks.)

For maximum goodness, you should avoid nutrient control that involves anything other than the critters in your tank, IMO.

Something to consider is why you're so worried about nutrients in the first place.

I'm guessing (correct me if I'm wrong!), but more than likely you're worried like everyone else about an algae bloom.

Convention tells you that controlling nutrients is supposed to prevent blooms and I guess to help reduce the worry.

Tell me if you've ever seen someone practicing "nutrient control" that also has an algae bloom. Since that's not a hard combination to find (nearly every algae thread on the internet!) you have to know that nutrient control isn't the answer.

@Paul B's tank and all the others like it – predominantly mature tanks run by mature reefers – work without getting algae blooms because they don't get spikes in nutrients. A disturbance such as a large spike or drop in nutrients is required to start an algae bloom. (Yes, I said spike or drop.) Merely having high nutrient levels (but no spike or disturbance) is not sufficient to kick off an algae bloom.

• They don't add large quantities of fish or corals all at once.
• They feed very consistently, so there's pretty much never a "starvation moment" in their tank.
• Their tank having never been starved means that their microbial food webs are very strong and well developed.
• Carbon dosing skews the microbial food web in a bad way so that if there is ever a spike or crash in nutrients, there's a high likelihood of a harmful algae bloom vs something easy like hair algae.
  
• Fast growing algae like hair algae are the most attractive to grazers....and they require a consistent nutrient source.
• Algae that is compatible with "nutrient control" is rarely palatable to grazers. Wanna do more cleaning by hand? Go for nutrient control!
• They also use a crew of grazers to keep algae down in the display, and most use skimming and either a refugium or ATS to grow algae and remove some nutrients "outside the tank".
• Cover up as much available growing space on dead rock as possible – grow as much coral, etc as you can.

Ok I think it's time for us to agree to disagree.

 

[mcarroll]

Eh? Which part? (I'm gone from here....PM me if you like.)

 

[lion king]

I'm glad you are liking it, I could never feed my fish the way I feed them without it. Just remember not to forget about your phosphate. Are you dosing manual or with a doser. If you don't have it on a doser, brs sells the single line 1 ml a minute doser, hook it up to one of those and it's sweet.

 

[glb]

I'm glad you are liking it, I could never feed my fish the way I feed them without it. Just remember not to forget about your phosphate. Are you dosing manual or with a doser. If you don't have it on a doser, brs sells the single line 1 ml a minute doser, hook it up to one of those and it's sweet.

I dose manual. Yes I'll keep an eye on the Phosphate. I took the gfo offline but if it starts to creep up I'll restart it. The reactor works too well. It totally wipes out Phosphate for a while. The only thing I don't like about the Nopox is that I've gotten slimed!!

 

[Susan Edwards]

What is the correct ratio for no3 to po4?

I'd like to know this as well as I need to get the two balanced. PO finally dropping to 0 and I have to dose to get some back, and nitrates still around 20ish. I'm aiming between 5-10 no3 and .05-.08 po4?

 

[Susan Edwards]

@glb nopox never gave me slime. I didn't get that until a few days ago when po4 bottomed out. no3 hit 5 for a day and back to 20. So with the bryopsis being killed off, my chemistry is changing.

 

[glb]

@glb nopox never gave me slime. I didn't get that until a few days ago when po4 bottomed out. po3 hit 5 for a day and back to 20. So with the bryopsis being killed off, my chemistry is changing.

Interesting. I must have some Phosphates now. I need to test to see where things stand.

 

[lion king]

I use the Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorus Checker now, check out the comparison vid by BRS. Most of the phosphate test are very inaccurate especially at lower levels, I mean like less than .1 even. I was using Red Sea and was getting 0, I compared with the Hanna and was getting as high as .08.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I switched to the hanna as well for exactly that reason. Not sure if it is the ultra low but it gives me 0 readings now that I am confident in

 

[Susan Edwards]

I switched to the hanna as well for exactly that reason. Not sure if it is the ultra low but it gives me 0 readings now that I am confident in

 

[glb]

I use the Hanna Ultra Low Range Phosphorus Checker now, check out the comparison vid by BRS. Most of the phosphate test are very inaccurate especially at lower levels, I mean like less than .1 even. I was using Red Sea and was getting 0, I compared with the Hanna and was getting as high as .08.

I have the Hanna Phosphate checker and I'm happy with it. The last reading was 0.04 with spent gfo.

 

[glb]

Well I took out the gfo a few days ago and did a 5g water change. The PO4 read 0.00 on my Hanna Checker and the NO3 was about 10ppm. Today I dosed 3ml and was planning to lower it to 2ml tomorrow and maintain there. Does that sound like a plan? I'm very surprised at the PO4 number. The slime has cut back a lot. The skimmer is skimming well as far as bubbles go, but the skimmate is very light, more like white bubbles with some chunks in it. Does this sound like a plan?

 

[lion king]

Another tip for the nopox users, keep your slime clear. The slime will clog your pumps, return and skimmer. I got this from home depot for cheap and suck the slime out of my sump, it's easy to just make this your water change on a smaller tank. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-5-gal-1-75-Peak-HP-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

 

[glb]

Another tip for the nopox users, keep your slime clear. The slime will clog your pumps, return and skimmer. I got this from home depot for cheap and suck the slime out of my sump, it's easy to just make this your water change on a smaller tank. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bucket-Head-5-gal-1-75-Peak-HP-Wet-Dry-Vac-BH0100/202017218

Yes is does clog things. I love my bucket head!

 

[glb]

Update: Nopox has been a great success. My nitrates are between 5-10ppm and Phosphates read 0ppm. I went up to 4ml/day for a few days and have worked back down to 2ml/day for maintenance. There were no bacteria blooms and the only nuisance was the slime that developed at the beginning. I clean out my filter sock and mesh in the overflow box every day or two to manage that. Now that it's just a maintence dose, there is far less slime. I'm doing biweekly 10% water changes (instead of weekly). My advice is to start super slow with any new additive. I had success with a lower dose and think that saved me some of the headaches carbon dosing can cause. To say this has made tank maintenance easier is an understatement.