Getting zapped by my aquarium

[olonmv]

Hello both.... not sure if Masters in US is same premise as here ( Canada), but.... I found when I took mine last year (passed ), that the code stuff was a breeze, if in the trade long enough, and familiar with the book, like both of you seem to be, it was the Occupational Health and Safety and even more so the Contractor Law aspect ( geez that's a big book lol), that was the most tricky? I took the Ontario inspectors test about 5 years ago and found that slightly easier. Masters here is divided up about 40% code, 30% Occupational Safety, and 30% Contractor Licencing and Law. I did not take the pre course , but can definitely see it being worthwhile for familiarizing the non Code stuff especially. Best of luck on your upcoming test @olonmv !

As for that inspector job, 4 interviews later one of my fellow foreman actually got the position ahead of me....darn, but he's a good fella. Decided to stick with current position but might open up my own shop in near future. Depends how much my employer of 25 years ticks me off lol.

just off the top of my head both countries sound very similar in their standards.
The range calculations and their rules and exceptions throw me off. I have very little residential experience so a bit of practice to do.

I’ve got a very good footing where I’m at but, my own shop is never out of the question if I pass.

I appreciate the bid of luck sir, thank you!!!
Hopefully something opens up soon and you get a crack at that inspector job.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I said 20 amps or below. That would include all spaces that do not require GFCI. You have to define living space and where you get that definition is the key. Can you cite where they are not required?
When It comes to electrical safety, the NEC rules the land.

NEC Section 210.12 requires that for dwelling units, all 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, ...

Outdoor rated receptacle boxes with in use weatherproof covers? The receptacles are not rated, it is the enclosure you put them that is rated for the application.
Since you do not have any GFCI protection its predictable there will be no tripping. The reason why these receptacles must be on GFCI.


That is true and the NEC is the minimum standard in most all aspects of compliance.
But its clear what the NEC states. Its up to the AHJ to make the calls on what is compliant. The AHJ always trumps NEC standards.

There's so much wrong I dont feel like correcting it just go on thinking u know stuff in isle 15

 

[Cygnus]

There's so much wrong I dont feel like correcting it just go on thinking u know stuff in isle 15

Because you cannot correct it. There is not one statement in my post thats not true, factual and compliant.
But I would appreciate you pointing out anything you disagree with. I think thats your problem, you cant point anything out, so it became difficult for you to go and fact check each statement.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Because you cannot correct it. There is not one statement in my post thats not true, factual and compliant.
But I would appreciate you pointing out anything you disagree with. I think thats your problem, you cant point anything out, so it became difficult for you to go and fact check each statement.

Ok ill do one for you h.depot guy, (Can you cite where they are not required?) Closets, laundry rooms, garages, outside, attics,breezeways, garbage disposal, dishwashers, gas dryer receptacle, washer receptacle, and bathrooms....yeah I can recite a few, good luck out there buddy.

Good luck with the reef!

 

[Cygnus]

Ok ill do one for you h.depot guy, (Can you cite where they are not required?) Closets, laundry rooms, garages, outside, attics,breezeways, garbage disposal, dishwashers, gas dryer receptacle, washer receptacle, yeah I can recite a few, good luck out there buddy.

Good luck with the reef!

I gotta give you credit. You actually looked it all up! But look at your list. How many on that list must be on GFCI? How many are in locations that require GFCI?
When equipment is on GFCI in existing installations, they are not required to have AFCI protection. But in new construction most contractors today are using the combo breaker utilizing both.
How many closets have there own circuit?
Garages must be on GFCI.
Outside must be in GFCI.
How many attics have there own circuit?
Breezeways if not enclosed may be considered a damp location and GFCI is required.
Gas dryer if in unfinished basements must be on GFCI.
Washer in unfinished basements must be on GFCI.

You know in the early 70's I did work at Home Depot. It was my side job.

 

[olonmv]

Ok ill do one for you h.depot guy, (Can you cite where they are not required?) Closets, laundry rooms, garages, outside, attics,breezeways, garbage disposal, dishwashers, gas dryer receptacle, washer receptacle, and bathrooms....yeah I can recite a few, good luck out there buddy.

Good luck with the reef!

NEC 2020. 210.8(F). Your outside plugs require GFCI protection.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I gotta give you credit. You actually looked it all up! But look at your list. How many on that list must be on GFCI? How many are in locations that require GFCI?
When equipment is on GFCI in existing installations, they are not required to have AFCI protection. But in new construction most contractors today are using the combo breaker utilizing both.
How many closets have there own circuit?
Garages must be on GFCI.
Outside must be in GFCI.
How many attics have there own circuit?
Breezeways if not enclosed may be considered a damp location and GFCI is required.
Gas dryer if in unfinished basements must be on GFCI.
Washer in unfinished basements must be on GFCI.

You know in the early 70's I did work at Home Depot. It was my side job.

Whatever you right in your head i guess, come to Fl and find out!

 

[olonmv]

Whatever you right in your head i guess, come to Fl and find out!

Florida adheres to 2017 NEC.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Florida adheres to 2017 NEC.

In December they went to 2020 finally, we take it easy here.

 

[Cygnus]

Whatever you right in your head i guess, come to Fl and find out!

I was born in Florida. N. Miami. 1956. North Shore Hospital. The code gets revised every 3 years. I think we are on 2017 as well. Not sure. Been retired a few years now.

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

I was born in Florida. N. Miami. 1956. North Shore Hospital. The code gets revised every 3 years. I think we are on 2017 as well. Not sure. Been retired a few years now.

Stay that way....

 

[Cygnus]

Whats wrong? Panties in a Wad?

 

[DopamineKata]

Ok ill do one for you h.depot guy

Is it necessary to be a jerk? Is that how you'd talk to someone face to face?

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Is it necessary to be a jerk? Is that how you'd talk to someone face to face?

To that guy and anyone else discrediting me and belittling others, yes I would

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

Is it necessary to be a jerk? Is that how you'd talk to someone face to face?

I dont know if jerk is the proper word to use

 

[vpierce3]

Good to see another electrician on the forum. But I do question using one hand and two fingers. Putting two fingers in the water with one hand is the exact same as putting one finger in. Same potential so there is no current flow.

Hi there fellow sparky. It all depends on the path provided for the current to flow. As long as the only path for the current to travel is between the two fingers on the same hand, the current will be restricted to that area.
Same principle as being able to grab a hot wire without consequence as long as you aren’t grounded (everyone, please don’t try that if you aren’t trained to). Also, it’s the same principle that allows Tesla suits to protect high voltage linemen.
Back when I was an apprentice, I remember the old timers would double check circuits by putting their finger on a ground and flicking the hot with the thumb of the same hand because they didn’t completely trust their testers. The reason that was considered (relatively) safe was because electricity only flows where you allow it to.
But in the end, the safest way would be to instal a GFCI receptacle and then plug one piece of equipment in at a time to ID where the fault is as I described In the final part of my post.

 

[vpierce3]

Although I am not an Electrician, I worked with it for years. I learned a lesson about a year ago. I arrived home, and smelt Ozone. Looked all through the house. At my Aquarium my skimmer overflowed went down the cord, and was melting my power bar, until the wire finally burnt through. I asked a master Electrician friend of mine, he told me that only a Arc protector would help here. You can do Receptacles, or your own house

Hi there. Arc fault protected receptacles (AFCI plugs) sense sudden rapid bursts of amperage and then trip. For instance, if a child stuck a paper clip in a plug or something similar. That’s why code requires AFCI protection in bedrooms, living rooms, hallways, etc.
Ground fault circuit interruption (GFCI) works very differently. It monitors how much current (amps) is flowing in the hot wire and the neutral wire In a circuit. And if it senses a difference of more than around 5 milliamperes between those two wires, then it will trip because it “knows” there is electricity “leaking” somewhere, such as stray voltage in water. That is why code requires GFCI protection in wet areas, kitchen counters, within 6’ of a wet bar sink, bathrooms, near pool equipment, etc.
So although arc fault protection has its place, I believe GFCI is more appropriate for protecting people around water (aquarium).

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

NEC 2020. 210.8(F). Your outside plugs require GFCI protection.

Outside receptacles do not all require gfci protection unless it is in a WET location

 

[vpierce3]

A GFCI would have tripped had the water been the source of the issue. But your friend is correct. AFCI is now being required in all new homes on circuits under 20 amps.
Unlike the GFCI, the AFCI can trip on whats called a high resistance connection or arcing as you mention. This happens when the problem is not a direct short, but a pathway to a short.
They do make AFCI/GFCI breakers. Would not be a bad addition to any tank equipment supply.

Hi there. A GFCI will trip with a differential of around 5 milliamperes between the hot and neutral no matter what causes it. Not just water.

 

[olonmv]

Outside receptacles do not all require gfci protection unless it is in a WET location

I’m pretty sure your outdoor receptacles dont fall under any of the exceptions. Especially when they’re getting wet twice a week year round.