GHA- Is there anything else I can do???

[Magellan]

Op said "anything else I can do". I recently learned that algae can out compete bacteria for ammonia. So here is an idea. Is it possible to create a sump that hosts enough bacteria to compete with algae?

I recently found that out too! But isn’t that the idea of biomedia? I have had success in freshwater and now saltwater as well by using a lot of biomedia, I knew it controlled ammonia but I didn’t realize the algae would be trying to use that as a food source...I just thought I was protecting the fish from themselves lol

 

[Mike konesky]

4 day blackout, feed everything, blackout again if needed, repeat above. If it's not actually 'blacked out' you wont win.

 

[krash7172]

There is a tipping point where enough algae can starve the bacteria and there is a problem that isn't logical to fix.

 

[krash7172]

Blackout to display tank is a bit strong. I propose adding surface area to the sump with rock or filter media that is blacked out.

 

[m0jjen]

sea chem and salifert test kits over a 3 year period would not all give incorrect results.

Those testkits wont give you much of any good information reagarding phosphate. They are way off right of the shelf and should not be sold at all.

I have tons of dwarf ceirths, zebra turbos about 3 inches around, trochus snails, emerald crabs, nerite snails, fuzzy chitons, short spine/pnincushion/tuxedo urchins, algae blennies, yellow tang, hippo tang, bristle tooth tang, pitho crabs, paved mithrax crabs.

Cant see any sea hares in there. Pretty much the #1 go to cuc member for hair algae. Someone posted that your cuc is to large, and i really do agree. The strength isn't in numbers, Its the right amount of the right species.

 

[LesPoissons]

It seems like less food should work in many cases. I did try very minimal feeding for a month and it didnt change anything with the gha or my tank parameters. Starving the fish just led to a lot of agression, leaving some of my least aggressive fish looking pretty bad. Also most fish need a varied diet and many dont graze or live off algae. Because the tank already has low nutrients, a few cubes in a 220g doest change much. I have 0 to 0.05 phos and 0 to 2.5 nitrates without gha in my tank. I have the same values now. Gha can live in super low nutrient environments. There is plenty of research available on this. Low nutrients are a great way to avoid gha but once it is in the tank, they are not necessarily a limiting factor.

I dont have room for a 120g sump unfortunately so that's not something I could try.

 

[LesPoissons]

Those testkits wont give you much of any good information reagarding phosphate. They are way off right of the shelf and should not be sold at all.



Cant see any sea hares in there. Pretty much the #1 go to cuc member for hair algae. Someone posted that your cuc is to large, and i really do agree. The strength isn't in numbers, Its the right amount of the right species.

Have tried 3 sea hares

 

[m0jjen]

It seems like less food should work in many cases. I did try very minimal feeding for a month and it didnt change anything with the gha or my tank parameters.

Thing is that the nutrients utilized by the GHA comes from somewhere. If you continuously remove it manually you remove the nutrients absorbed in the algae. So a balanced input - output of nutrients with skimming and whatnot would put you at +-0 or close to it. By manually removing surplus nutrients (GHA) once that is achieved would starve them.

Im gonna point out that the amount of cuc is to big again and if any one specie dont eat the algae available they will starve and die making it an unless cycle until the cuc is at a balance with the amount of food available and the amount they need.

I utilize 1 turbo per 40 litre and 1 hermit per 80 litre. This puts me at a 13 turbo and 6-7 hermits. On a 625 XXL.

 

[LesPoissons]

Hanna checker is next on the list and then pending results and icp test. As of now I dont have one and have to go with the infuriating color tests. I will say that I ran a reactor with BRS high capacity gfo for the last 6 months and saw no change in gha. (Took it off last month bc of 0 change.)

 

[m0jjen]

Hanna checker is next on the list and then pending results and icp test. As of now I dont have one and have to go with the infuriating color tests. I will say that I ran a reactor with BRS high capacity gfo for the last 6 months and saw no change in gha. (Took it off last month bc of 0 change.)

Can take way longer than 6 months for rock or substrate to equalize its phosphorous content with the water meaning you might have pulled out to soon.

 

[LesPoissons]

I'd like to repeat that for all current test possibilities over 3 years using sea chem, red sea, and salifert, my tank is low nutrient. There is a wealth of research available on how easily GHA can survive and thrive in a low nutrient tank. If things die in my tank, the nutrient levels would go up. I have not seen a nitrate spike in ages. If everything dies id assume my nitrates will get over 2.5 (unless you are saying all those tests are wrong too?) And then I will have happier corals and do water changes. It would be fine. Its not happening. I'm happy for you that you can maintain with a smaller clean up crew. As this thread suggests, that has not work for me, nor did lower feeding, gfo, fluconazole, more bacteria, less light etc etc etc etc. Listing things I have already tried that havent worked is not helpful. If you are feeling frustrated that standard/well know things would not fix the problem, try to imagine how I feel.

 

[m0jjen]

I'd like to repeat that for all current test possibilities over 3 years using sea chem, red sea, and salifert, my tank is low nutrient. There is a wealth of research available on how easily GHA can survive and thrive in a low nutrient tank. If things die in my tank, the nutrient levels would go up. I have not seen a nitrate spike in ages. If everything dies id assume my nitrates will get over 2.5 (unless you are saying all those tests are wrong too?) And then I will have happier corals and do water changes. It would be fine. Its not happening. I'm happy for you that you can maintain with a smaller clean up crew. As this thread suggests, that has not work for me, nor did lower feeding, gfo, fluconazole, more bacteria, less light etc etc etc etc. Listing things I have already tried that havent worked is not helpful. If you are feeling frustrated that standard/well know things would not fix the problem, try to imagine how I feel.

Im very well aware that GHA can be really resilient and survive most things. But telling everyone they're wrong which is pretty much the responses you've had so far is not really helping, everyone wanto help out. Im not saying that the nitrate tests are faulty, but especially the salifert PO4 test is not reliable.

Regarding the cuc its not really up for a debate. Everything living needs to eat or obtain energy from something. If they don't consume the algae they most likely will die. I'm not gonna say that the algae will consume all the nutrients instantly but they will consume a fairly large to most of the nutrients pretty fast if nothing else does.

Yet again, everything living needs energy. Either from nutrients or consuming other organic mather and or light.

I won against GHA after 4 months by removing 95%+ of the algae and dosing alot of bacteria creating a bloom, i controlled the bloom with a UVC running for a few hours a day to not chock the tank and removing all oxygen.

I wont argue with you, im just trying to contribute and if you don't want the help its all okay

 

[LesPoissons]

I'm pretty sure I havent told anyone they are wrong, and I've been pretty appreciative of everyones ideas as the old have not worked for me. So far you have just repeated everything that has already been said and tried on this thread. I think I'm all set on your help, thanks for sharing your thoughts, I'm sure theres other threads that can use your help.

 

[brandon429]

The single most important aspect of GHA control in a reef tank is to work in reverse of what the masses do. Cause the clean condition first, thoroughly, then implement literally any or all of the controls mentioned here as growback suppression only, never mass removers. That's the key.

The sole reason our hobby hasn't advanced in thirty years regarding GHA controls is because 99% of ideas offered are performed in the full on invaded condition. Its a serious of external locus of control moves, so for society that means most just remain invaded although a few get by.

To make 100% of gha tanks comply, we reef opposite of how the masses reef and then the results instantly change. Any gha tank in this thread that is accessible, meaning one drain into a brute container can expose your whole reef, had the option to be gha-free and gha-feed-free last week.

that's for nanos....large tanks required some planning and time but direct control, and disallowance, still rules the roost for large tanks if you want command over what expresses in these $ boxes

post before pics then test, then final pics and we'll use this thread to turn around several gha tanks.


Remember, all the stuff we contemplate, measure, test, hope, ID etc, comes after we do the #1 thing we don't want to do: earn the clean condition via sweat and blood. Save all forms of grazing, hesitation, buying microscopes off amazon, buying animals, buying PO4 adsorbing media, until the tank has been restored using a pre-tested model that already highlights growback characters, even before you are to deal with them by the means listed as preventative actions only.

I rate any form of GHA as roughly the second most easily dealt with invader, yet it wrecks more tanks/causes start overs/throwing out of rocks/waste more than any invader in reefing because you cannot pry detritus-laden sandbeds out of people's hands, and you cannot hardly get anyone to directly kill something that's about to ruin their tank. this is why I state that GHA invasions are psychological and not biological. we secretly want to be invaded lol, I think? I can't figure out any other mechanism for showing someone a set of totally fixed reefs, then they opt to keep the same algae like 200 more days as they slowly exit the hobby. the crushing slow defeat makes them not think anything works I guess

but then sometimes, highly dedicated and serious individuals like we have in this thread take back ground and post the pics, that's earning change for the hobby

 

[LesPoissons]

I agree that a total tank breakdown, scraping each rock with a knife, and then peroxiding each rock would work very well. Unfortunately, that is a massive and expensive undertaking for a 7 foot tank. I dont have #5 55g brutes sitting around- that's about $400for 1x use trash cans. Once the tank is drained I would need to break apart the coral and the rock structures and remove every piece of maybe 200# of live rock and clean it. I dont have space in my schedule for that kind of all consuming task and it's not something you can rush through at that point. So I will def try cleaning one rock with dental precision at a time but the full on break down, although effective, unfortunately isnt an option at this point.

 

[LesPoissons]

I also agree that once you strip the tank, having everything in place to inhibit grow back is ideal. So, while taking rocks to the dentist, I will also throw the gfo reactor back on, and add in more bacteria and keep fighting the good fight.

 

[jda]

You can never inhibit algae growth all the way. If you do, you starve or kill the coral too.

Consumers. You need a balance.

 

[KJoFan]

I also want to say to those suggesting limited feeding that sometimes that’s not plausible. I have reduced to every other day feeding myself and my Copperband is already thinner than I’d like. I’m not willing to sacrifice my inhabitants and treat them poorly for the sake of potential nutrient reduction that may or may not have an impact on the invader.

 

[Shluffer]

Cutting feeding decreases the nutrients available for the algae. Issue is that you have to feed something, and your fish will poop. That's enough nutrients for established algae to persist. I cut my feeding hy 2/3 and it sisnt help.then again, I may have tons of nutrients in my rocks. For now I'll stick with slow cleaning and h02.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My success with GHA has been picking as much off by hand and then use of Vibrant liquid. Now , all gone