GHL Vs Apex Episode Series

[reefandreptileautomation]

Hey All

I started a series on my youtube channel GHL vs Apex.

I will go in depth into every aspect of each product. I am not picking sides here but just going over the pros and cons of each. Episode 1 has already been posted. Tune in for following episodes!

 

[robbyg]

I watched it, but I was kind of surprised that you said almost nothing about the excellent construction of the GHL unit when compared to the Apex. You just pointed out that they "weight just about the same". More time was spent talking about Peanut packing versus plastic trays than build quality. Typically when I see unboxing videos the build quality and feel are the main things that are talked about.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

I did not discuss the "build quality" because they did not seem much different to me (again this is my opinion). The powerbar, however, did seem much different which I mentioned. I am not trying to be like everyone else also. This will be unique and different as I am not paid by anyone and just giving my initial thoughts. I am not swaying one way or the other either. After this video series I will be doing programming tutorials. My youtube is about programming. FYI, The packing peanuts are silly for such an expensive item. I also mentioned the packing for about 10 seconds of my entire video.

Thank you for your comments. More to come.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

I wanted to also follow up with saying. I could discuss the cases of the base units. But, if the GHL power bar is so much better built, why does it not have a UL certification and the Apex does?

 

[Aaronhome27]

So the trolls are out complaining about plastic vs aluminum. Lol. When it's in the cabinet plastic will not corrode. But other than that is asthetics. And you pay for that aluminum. Looking forward to the programming portion of this series. I've seen the ghl in action and it isn't even in the same league as apex.... Lol. Seriously bash his videos that are open and honest because he didn't read your script to support a controller you bought and will be dammed if it isn't the best. In reality apex makes great use of the space of the eb832. While ghl has a huge brick with 6 outlets. And not much more. You have to pay for the extras the power bar doesn't come with. Yet using more space and more money. Idk if the extra modules needed to be equivalent to apex are expensive bit head to head for your money so far apex is straight up ahead. Oh. But maybe the modules are made of aluminum

 

[robbyg]

So the trolls are out complaining about plastic vs aluminum. Lol. When it's in the cabinet plastic will not corrode. But other than that is asthetics. And you pay for that aluminum. Looking forward to the programming portion of this series. I've seen the ghl in action and it isn't even in the same league as apex.... Lol. Seriously bash his videos that are open and honest because he didn't read your script to support a controller you bought and will be dammed if it isn't the best. In reality apex makes great use of the space of the eb832. While ghl has a huge brick with 6 outlets. And not much more. You have to pay for the extras the power bar doesn't come with. Yet using more space and more money. Idk if the extra modules needed to be equivalent to apex are expensive bit head to head for your money so far apex is straight up ahead. Oh. But maybe the modules are made of aluminum

I seem to remember when the Apex was released most of the owners were really turned off by the kiddy plastic and cheap feel of the Aper WiFi. BTW Are you seriously putting your Powerbar’s near your tank water. Anyway if this was round one and the best the Profilux could do was a tie with Apex on build quality then it does not Bode well for GHL going forward.

 

[robbyg]

I wanted to also follow up with saying. I could discuss the cases of the base units. But, if the GHL power bar is so much better built, why does it not have a UL certification and the Apex does?

I don’t know about that but I am sure it is EU certified design. The EU is a lot stricter than the US when it comes to electrical certification. Which is probably one of the reasons the EB832 has yet to be released in the EU.

 

[TheHarold]

I seem to remember when the Apex was released most of the owners were really turned off by the kiddy plastic and cheap feel of the Aper WiFi. BTW Are you seriously putting your Powerbar’s near your tank water. Anyway if this was round one and the best the Profilux could do was a tie with Apex on build quality then it does not Bode well for GHL going forward.

As one of the people who was initially turned of by the Apex 2016, it was because of the color combo LOL. The eb832 has grown on me. The mounting solution is nice (Dovetail), it uses all true relays (no Triacs like the previous EB8 version), and many additional features such as individual outlet power monitoring, the two 30w controllable 24v ports, and the ability to just plug in their other accessories via 1link without needing additional power supplies.

I don't think its unfair to say the GHL bar seems feature lacking.

That said, the GHL bar is less expensive, which may justify the fewer features- $230 for 6 outlets rather than the EB832 $350 for 8 outlets + additional 24v outputs & features. The GHL power bar seems more similar to the outdated Apex EB8, which was $160 for 8 outlets.


Re putting power bars near water: well yeah, many users have their controller in their aquarium cabinet. Not everyone has a dedicated fish room or can put up a panel next to the tank to mount stuff . Thats just reality.

 

[robbyg]

As one of the people who was initially turned of by the Apex 2016, it was because of the color combo LOL. The eb832 has grown on me. The mounting solution is nice (Dovetail), it uses all true relays (no Triacs like the previous EB8 version), and many additional features such as individual outlet power monitoring, the two 30w controllable 24v ports, and the ability to just plug in their other accessories via 1link without needing additional power supplies.

I don't think its unfair to say the GHL bar seems feature lacking.

That said, the GHL bar is less expensive, which may justify the fewer features- $230 for 6 outlets rather than the EB832 $350 for 8 outlets + additional 24v outputs & features. The GHL power bar seems more similar to the outdated Apex EB8, which was $160 for 8 outlets.


Re putting power bars near water: well yeah, many users have their controller in their aquarium cabinet. Not everyone has a dedicated fish room or can put up a panel next to the tank to mount stuff . Thats just reality.

I am not bringing features into this yet as he said that was for a future video. My only comment is about build quality which is something that unboxing videos typically rate. My opinion watching the video was that it was declared a tie. Kind of odd since GHL is known for having very good build quality and Neptune not so much!

And BTW as you already know I am pretty much on GHLs crap list because of the posts I made about the ion director. So I have no pony in this race just a desire to see a fair comparison.

 

[User1]

I watched it, but I was kind of surprised that you said almost nothing about the excellent construction of the GHL unit when compared to the Apex. You just pointed out that they "weight just about the same". More time was spent talking about Peanut packing versus plastic trays than build quality. Typically when I see unboxing videos the build quality and feel are the main things that are talked about.

I didn't watch it. No need to. However, if you say he didn't mention anything about build quality of the controller unit alone that is already a red flag. As an Neptune user since 1999 I can admit when another product has better base construction such as the GHL head unit. It does.

Doesn't mean it is a better product but putting the two side by side aesthetically - GHL 1. Apex 0.

 

[TheHarold]

I am not bringing features into this yet as he said that was for a future video. My only comment is about build quality which is something that unboxing videos typically rate. My opinion watching the video was that it was declared a tie. Kind of odd since GHL is known for having very good build quality and Neptune not so much!

And BTW as you already know I am pretty much on GHLs crap list because of the posts I made about the ion director. So I have no pony in this race just a desire to see a fair comparison.

Oh true, that's fair. I think the issue for me was that "build quality" of the exterior has very limited application, in terms of helping to determine which is better for any given user. We are just looking at the exterior, so far. Yes, the GHL bar or head unit may survive being dropped from a higher height than the plastic Apex without being damaged. It is much more rigid and made of metal- better materials. But is that relevant, in terms of the actual usage? How often are you dropping your power bar or base unit?

Is an aluminum hosing needed for something that doesn't endure any meaningful sort of physical stress? The actual internals, both hardware and software, are what determine reliability. Not "build quality", in the sense of the materials/aesthetics of the exterior that we looked at in the first video.


I hope this doesn't make me sound like a fanboy. I just am an engineering nerd, interested in material choice for a specific application. GHLs power bar is quite long and thin, and probably needs to be metal if it is to retain that shape. If there is a reason for that shape and outlet spacing that makes it superior to the Neptune design, that would be explored later.

The apex bar is much more squat, and I don't really see any need for it to be made in metal if the plastic is stiff enough for the application.

 

[User1]

Oh true, that's fair. I think the issue for me was that "build quality" of the exterior has very limited application, in terms of helping to determine which is better for any given user. We are just looking at the exterior, so far. Yes, the GHL bar or head unit may survive being dropped from a higher height than the plastic Apex without being damaged. It is much more rigid and made of metal- better materials. But is that relevant, in terms of the actual usage? How often are you dropping your power bar or base unit?

Is an aluminum hosing needed for something that doesn't endure any meaningful sort of physical stress? The actual internals, both hardware and software, are what determine reliability. Not "build quality", in the sense of the materials/aesthetics of the exterior that we looked at in the first video.


I hope this doesn't make me sound like a fanboy. I just am an engineering nerd, interested in material choice for a specific application. GHLs power bar is quite long and thin, and probably needs to be metal if it is to retain that shape. If there is a reason for that shape and outlet spacing that makes it superior to the Neptune design, that would be explored later.

The apex bar is much more squat, and I don't really see any need for it to be made in metal if the plastic is stiff enough for the application.

That is why in my comment I said head unit Take the Cor 15 or 20 pump for example and it is built like a freight train. The apex head unit is a head scratcher for me. I really don't understand that design. Then again I didn't understand the Tridents either until Paul (I think it was him anyway) explain it...

By the way - I didn't take your post as a fan boy or biased Not that you asked me or it matters...

 

[TheHarold]

That is why in my comment I said head unit Take the Cor 15 or 20 pump for example and it is built like a freight train. The apex head unit is a head scratcher for me. I really don't understand that design. Then again I didn't understand the Tridents either until Paul (I think it was him anyway) explain it...

By the way - I didn't take your post as a fan boy or biased Not that you asked me or it matters...

Yeah, I don't love the physical Apex 2016 head unit design either. I cant tell if it was intended to look modern or not. Somewhat weird looking, just like their DOS & Trident. Provocative design? Kind of sets them apart, in either a good or bad way depending on your preference.

I think Neptune's main design decision for the head unit is based on the assumption that the majority of users want to mount the system to a panel, so cables should exit downward. Then, instead of having a wide unit like their older Apex Classic, they made it thicker to minimize the space needed on said panel. But then the ports are laid out so weirdly, how will users ever plug something in??? Add the rotating component ;Woot.

The GHL controller cannot really be be wall mounted in most setups since it protrudes so much, and the cord exits the back. Designed for a shelf. Which concept is better, wall mountable or designed to sit on a shelf? Impossible to determine!

I do wish I had the funds to just order a GHL controller and get familiar with the features and hardware. I could design several accessories for their system if I had one in my hands. It might be a good investment!

& Thanks

edit:

Also, on a side note, the upcoming Control2/Control4 from Coralvue is designed to be wall mounted, but with the IP67-rated ports facing outward. Just like their WaveEngine. Its an interesting look (plus lots of RBG!).

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

I didn't watch it. No need to. However, if you say he didn't mention anything about build quality of the controller unit alone that is already a red flag. As an Neptune user since 1999 I can admit when another product has better base construction such as the GHL head unit. It does.

Doesn't mean it is a better product but putting the two side by side aesthetically - GHL 1. Apex 0.

A red flag cause I did not mention build quality? I did mention what I thought but I do not know which one is "built" better. I am simply a user of the products giving my initial opinion on what I opened. Nothing more and nothing less. I am not some engineer that needs to take a look at what each product is built from. Again this will be a large series. Not just 1 episode. Some will be boring and some will be interesting. It depends on the viewer and what they are looking for. This will be a good start for people trying to get into reef automation and they can make their own conclusion.

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

I am not bringing features into this yet as he said that was for a future video. My only comment is about build quality which is something that unboxing videos typically rate. My opinion watching the video was that it was declared a tie. Kind of odd since GHL is known for having very good build quality and Neptune not so much!

And BTW as you already know I am pretty much on GHLs crap list because of the posts I made about the ion director. So I have no pony in this race just a desire to see a fair comparison.

Appreciate you saying this. Reason being is because I have no pony in the race either. I am simply giving my opinion and also showing people factually information about both so that they do not have to research online as much to find out the product info. Also I will be showing programming and that way people can get an idea what they are getting into. In terms of the hardware I have only had it for 5 days lol. So again, purely my opinions on what I see and factual information about the product from doing research on my own and speaking to both companies beforehand.

 

[User1]

A red flag cause I did not mention build quality? I did mention what I thought but I do not know which one is "built" better. I am simply a user of the products giving my initial opinion on what I opened. Nothing more and nothing less. I am not some engineer that needs to take a look at what each product is built from. Again this will be a large series. Not just 1 episode. Some will be boring and some will be interesting. It depends on the viewer and what they are looking for. This will be a good start for people trying to get into reef automation and they can make their own conclusion.

I see. Well you really don't need an engineering degree to see the difference and it has nothing to do with what material it is made out of

I guess I get it that you didn't get caught up in it or let it sway your opinion. Probably a good thing. We have always been taught to not judge a book by its cover.

Best of luck.

 

[User1]

Yeah, I don't love the physical Apex 2016 head unit design either. I cant tell if it was intended to look modern or not. Somewhat weird looking, just like their DOS & Trident. Provocative design? Kind of sets them apart, in either a good or bad way depending on your preference.

I think Neptune's main design decision for the head unit is based on the assumption that the majority of users want to mount the system to a panel, so cables should exit downward. Then, instead of having a wide unit like their older Apex Classic, they made it thicker to minimize the space needed on said panel. But then the ports are laid out so weirdly, how will users ever plug something in??? Add the rotating component ;Woot.

The GHL controller cannot really be be wall mounted in most setups since it protrudes so much, and the cord exits the back. Designed for a shelf. Which concept is better, wall mountable or designed to sit on a shelf? Impossible to determine!

I do wish I had the funds to just order a GHL controller and get familiar with the features and hardware. I could design several accessories for their system if I had one in my hands. It might be a good investment!

& Thanks

edit:

Also, on a side note, the upcoming Control2/Control4 from Coralvue is designed to be wall mounted, but with the IP67-rated ports facing outward. Just like their WaveEngine. Its an interesting look (plus lots of RBG!).

You know - that is a pretty dang good explanation of the design of the head unit. I have to say - makes sense

 

[reefandreptileautomation]

Yea with the GHL you have to properly
Plan for a cabinet or shelf with a good amount of space behind for all the wiring. Like he said it is a personal choice I think.

I do like the display built in and the GHL logo that states if there is an alarm.

Again, I will explain these things as I go but trying not to get too tied up in what I think is better.

 

[robbyg]

Yea with the GHL you have to properly
Plan for a cabinet or shelf with a good amount of space behind for all the wiring. Like he said it is a personal choice I think.

I do like the display built in and the GHL logo that states if there is an alarm.

Again, I will explain these things as I go but trying not to get too tied up in what I think is better.

I agree. I am not certain why GHL believes that all their equipment must be put on a shelf. It does make the positioning options very limited. The big problem I see for you going forward is that the GHL's biggest attribute and IMHO the one that counts the most by a mile is reliability. As I stated in another post unless your willing to set this thing up on a tank and buy some other accessories like dosing pumps etc. and then run it long term your probably never going to ever see the real reason why GHL appeals to certain reefers. Anyway it will be good to see some of the programming aspects and the abilities and limitations of each unit. I am in not in anyway trying to discourage you, it's just that GHL has a Rep for two things, build quality and reliability and the only one of those that is easy to flesh out in the short term is build quality.

On a side note for your programming video I am puzzled at to why both Neptune and GHL both have such a hard time implementing simple "AND" / "OR" and other Logic operations in programs. I am not a hard core user of either unit but from what I can see the Apex needs to use Virtual sockets and a bunch of linking to make it happen while if I remember correctly GHL uses something similar in that you have to setup individual program modules and then use some Gate numbers and then use those in a separate Logic table. Maybe I am wrong about that so it will be interesting to see it in your videos.

I think you would probably be blown away by Aquatronica's system which involves just dragging Sensors or other input Icons into a grid box and then grabbing Output Icons into another grid box. It then creates a STEP by STEP menu for you that allows you to put in the Logic that will turn on the output devices based on the states you specify for each of the input devices and then how those output devices will behave. In each program I can have anywhere from 1- 9 inputs that all have to be at a specific state in order to trigger 1-9 outputs like a plug/dosing pump etc. The real beauty is that it's that it is so easy to do because it creates the menu screens for you and then you just fill in the numbers and the logic for each device and hit Next and it moves onto the next device until it's done.

 

[Krazie4Acans]

I think it's important to understand the actual differences between UL and CE certifications.

UL listing requires very expensive and extensive 3rd party testing and inspection (by NRTL), compliance with strict standards and factory inspection to show the device fulfills strict electrical requirements. It's all documented and it's all registered with UL.

CE gives a set of guidelines and you have to fill out a form stating that you comply with those guidelines but there is no proof required. If you fill out the form and submit it then you get to put the CE logo on your product. You are not required to prove that you comply, there are no inspections of the assembly or factory assembling them, nor do you have to register the proof.

Most CE devices that I have tested do not meet the CE guidelines that the logo states that they do so relying on them to make you feel safe in using that device in any environment may not result in the experience that you think you are getting.

Neither UL or CE have specific guidelines or requirements for products used in or around hobby aquariums. So either you will be trying to fulfill requirements that are either not to the level needed for use in that environment (I.E.liquid splash testing only) or be tested to something much more extreme than this environment (I.E. submersible electrical devices like IP rating type testing). Neither one is really helpful or correct for these types of devices.