Ghost feed with bio Spira to start cycle?

[Glass Algae]

So I have a fluval 13.5 tank coming. I have a bottle of bio Spira & the ocean conditioner coming as well as 20lbs of caribsea life rock and sand.

I've been watching many videos on cycling but not mention this particular situation. My questions are: Do I need to kick start the cycling process by adding a ammonia producing product whether it be dosed chemical form or from an organic source like shrimp or fish food while using these bottled products?

I don't plan on instantly adding coral/fish even though the bottle says I can. I plan to watch the tank and test till appropriate parameters are observed.

Question #2
Will I be seeing a different variation of a cycle using these products? If so what kind of cycle chemical parameters would be considered "according to plan"?

Thanks in advance, sorry if this sounds too convoluted. I don't have enough of the jargon nailed down yet.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

You can if you want, or you can just add a few drops of ammonia. Plenty of folks have just dumped the bottle in and added fish either right away or after a day or two. These products basically "instacycle" a tank. There are plenty of threads on here with success stories.

 

[homer1475]

Yes you need to initially feed the bacteria to get them to populate. Be that ghost feeding(I personally find this takes to long, because you have to wait for the food to breakdown), or fish addition, or pure ammonia(Ace janitorial brand, or Dr. Tims ammonium chloride).

Once your ammonia has dropped to 0, your tank is effectively cycled, and is ready for your first fish, or CUC. Once your ammonia levels drop, you can discontinue ghost feeding, and or ammonia addtions even if you don't add any ammonia producing inhabitants. Bacteria will live for a very long time without a food source.

Any cycle, be it natural, or by bottle bacteria, still cycle the same way. What some fail to see with bottled bacteria is the ammonia rise and fall, but it still happens, just at a much faster pace then a natural cycle.

 

[Glass Algae]

Yes you need to initially feed the bacteria to get them to populate. Be that ghost feeding(I personally find this takes to long, because you have to wait for the food to breakdown), or fish addition, or pure ammonia(Ace janitorial brand, or Dr. Tims ammonium chloride).

Once your ammonia has dropped to 0, your tank is effectively cycled, and is ready for your first fish, or CUC. Once your ammonia levels drop, you can discontinue ghost feeding, and or ammonia addtions even if you don't add any ammonia producing inhabitants. Bacteria will live for a very long time without a food source.

Any cycle, be it natural, or by bottle bacteria, still cycle the same way. What some fail to see with bottled bacteria is the ammonia rise and fall, but it still happens, just at a much faster pace then a natural cycle.

So I should set up my live rock and sand then fill it dump my bottled bacteria and immidiatley add a fish or cuc? Or should a wait till I can test for low to no ammonia, then add fish? I plan on keeping mostly coral so I figured I'd wait till parameters were correct and add cuc and take care of them till my first coral(s) arrive.

If my plan is maybe to keep one or two fish max (possible clown fish and royal gramma) the majority of the tank will be coral and cuc that helps those coral. What do you think should be my plan of attack.

My items for the tank arrive monday and I'll have to go buy water from my lfs Tuesday so I can pick up cuc or a fish there if needed.

 

[homer1475]

If you do not add an ammonia source, you will never measure any ammonia(unless you have die off from rock). You add an ammonia source by ghost feeding, fish additions, or pure ammonia.

FWIW, corals are much harder to keep without fish poop feeding them.

How big is the tank in question?

 

[JoshO]

My experience with a a similar product (ATM colony) is that although these products imply they cycle immediately, this isn't the case. It still takes around 14 days to show a complete cycle.
The most stable method of ensuring your cycle is correct is by dosing Dr Tim's Ammonia chloride. Once you get a 0 reading of ammonia and you get a positive reading of nitrate (not nitrite) do a water change and re-dose to 2 and wait to see how long it takes for ammonia to 0 out again. If it's within 48 hours you should be looking good!

 

[JoshO]

I DO NOT recommend have a sacrificial fish to start a cycle. It's absolutely unnecessary in this day and age as we have the knowledge and products available to ensure livestock aren't harmed

 

[homer1475]

And I've cycled QT tanks in hours with biospira.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

And I've cycled QT tanks in hours with biospira.

Ditto. When I started my current tank I added biospira, dosed ammonia to 2 ppm, and it was gone in a few hours.

 

[lapin]

I have a bottle of bio Spira & the ocean conditioner coming as well as 20lbs of caribsea life rock and sand.

The conditioner is for tap water. Use it for your top off water if you will be topping off with tap water.
If you are getting salt water from the LFS then you do not need it for your start up.

So I should set up my live rock and sand then fill it dump my bottled bacteria and immidiatley add a fish or cuc? Or should a wait till I can test for low to no ammonia, then add fish? I plan on keeping mostly coral so I figured I'd wait till parameters were correct and add cuc and take care of them till my first coral(s) arrive.

Add your live rock and rinse the sand then add sand. Add the salt water from your LFS. If you are using live rock it has bacteria all ready in it. You can still use the bio-spira. I when all the dust settles I would test for ammonia after a few days. If ammonia is 0 and nitrate is low then do a small water change. If your tank seems stable, you can add things.
CUC : If you dont have algae then you will need to feed them

If my plan is maybe to keep one or two fish max (possible clown fish and royal gramma) the majority of the tank will be coral and cuc that helps those coral. What do you think should be my plan of attack.

If you have alage then add CUC then add the fish. Have you though about fish disease and QT the fish ?
If things are going ok then it will be good to add coral.

 

[tuesdayd]

Similar experience here. I used biospira to cycle as well. Put it in the tank and added ammonia. Not expecting much, I went out of town for three days, and when I got back ammonia was zero. Even though that's what it says it will do, I was a little surprised so I put another dose of ammonia in to see how quickly it would process. It was gone the next day, so fish went in the day after that.

I probably could have added fish immediately, but I was out of town for those first three days and unable to test the water.

 

[Glass Algae]

If you do not add an ammonia source, you will never measure any ammonia(unless you have die off from rock). You add an ammonia source by ghost feeding, fish additions, or pure ammonia.

FWIW, corals are much harder to keep without fish poop feeding them.

How big is the tank in question?

13.5 fluval tank

My experience with a a similar product (ATM colony) is that although these products imply they cycle immediately, this isn't the case. It still takes around 14 days to show a complete cycle.
The most stable method of ensuring your cycle is correct is by dosing Dr Tim's Ammonia chloride. Once you get a 0 reading of ammonia and you get a positive reading of nitrate (not nitrite) do a water change and re-dose to 2 and wait to see how long it takes for ammonia to 0 out again. If it's within 48 hours you should be looking good!

Thank you for this info. This is more or less the answer to my taking it safe and feeling out the tank ammonia question.

I DO NOT recommend have a sacrificial fish to start a cycle. It's absolutely unnecessary in this day and age as we have the knowledge and products available to ensure livestock aren't harmed

I'm very knew to this but to my knowledge wouldn't this added fish (if I went that route) NOT be sacrificed? The harm from what I gather is in the ammonia spike but doesn't that not happen in this case?

The conditioner is for tap water. Use it for your top off water if you will be topping off with tap water.
If you are getting salt water from the LFS then you do not need it for your start up.


Add your live rock and rinse the sand then add sand. Add the salt water from your LFS. If you are using live rock it has bacteria all ready in it. You can still use the bio-spira. I when all the dust settles I would test for ammonia after a few days. If ammonia is 0 and nitrate is low then do a small water change. If your tank seems stable, you can add things.
CUC : If you dont have algae then you will need to feed them



If you have alage then add CUC then add the fish. Have you though about fish disease and QT the fish ?
If things are going ok then it will be good to add coral.

Thank you for the immense amount of info here this helped alot. If I may pick your brain a bit further.

The rock I bought was caribsea life rock, I assumed this was a live option, and the sand I got was Carib sea aragalive black which I also assumed was live. I thought you didn't want to rinse live sand?

At the moment I havnt come up with a solid plan for fish qt I figured for coral I would use a smaller acrylic holding tank and rig it from there for temp holding, but with fish since I've only really planned on having 2 max I have not thought of a reasonable qt within my house parameters atm I don't wanna cramp them for weeks which is why I'd almost rather NO fish but I understand they are beneficial to the coral.

Last question is about the conditioner use for top off. I know top offs are supposed to be fresh water as to not effect salinity is that ocean conditioner going to effect that at all?

 

[SS-Ride]

Used biopsies to cycle every tank I’ve owned...about 6....as long as you are using enough for your water volume, you are fine dumping rocks fish sand in pretty much all at once.

 

[Glass Algae]

Used biopsies to cycle every tank I’ve owned...about 6....as long as you are using enough for your water volume, you are fine dumping rocks fish sand in pretty much all at once.

Please excuse the immense amount of newbie I'm about to reek of cause when you say biopsies I think medical procedure so I'm definitley missing something ;Dead

 

[SS-Ride]

Please excuse the immense amount of newbie I'm about to reek of cause when you say biopsies I think medical procedure so I'm definitley missing something ;Dead

Lol....nah phone autocorrected biospira

 

[JoshO]

13.5 fluval tank



Thank you for this info. This is more or less the answer to my taking it safe and feeling out the tank ammonia question.



I'm very knew to this but to my knowledge wouldn't this added fish (if I went that route) NOT be sacrificed? The harm from what I gather is in the ammonia spike but doesn't that not happen in this case?



Thank you for the immense amount of info here this helped alot. If I may pick your brain a bit further.

The rock I bought was caribsea life rock, I assumed this was a live option, and the sand I got was Carib sea aragalive black which I also assumed was live. I thought you didn't want to rinse live sand?

At the moment I havnt come up with a solid plan for fish qt I figured for coral I would use a smaller acrylic holding tank and rig it from there for temp holding, but with fish since I've only really planned on having 2 max I have not thought of a reasonable qt within my house parameters atm I don't wanna cramp them for weeks which is why I'd almost rather NO fish but I understand they are beneficial to the coral.

Last question is about the conditioner use for top off. I know top offs are supposed to be fresh water as to not effect salinity is that ocean conditioner going to effect that at all?

With regards to the sacrificial fish, a lot of people use a fish to produce waste that turns to ammonia to help start the cycle, but the spike of ammonia is harmful to the fish. With bottled ammonia we don't need to do this any longer. Patience is key in reefing, so making sure your cycle is compete is the best way to start!
As for the life rock, I've not looked into this so I'm unsure if it's "live" or not.
Live sand is "live" but have a look for the sand rinse thread for more information on this, it's a good read.
As for quarantine, you can use a plastic storage container if you don't have a tank big enough. If you're going to be adding fish I 100% recommend quarantining.
Corals will need to be dipped and inspected before adding to the display

 

[homer1475]

With instantly cycled bottled bacteria, the ammonia producing animal is not suffering either.

Yes we used to do this years ago before bottled bacteria, then as the hobby progressed we stopped using the "dither" fish, and went to bottle ammonia.

Now we have bacteria in a bottle that allows you to instantly cycle a tank, and add fish right away with 0 harm to the fish.

Old thinking that in reality is great(were not harming "dither" fish anymore), but not applicable this day and age with bottle bacteria.

 

[MattR]

I cycled my fish saltwater tank (fish only) with bio spira and fed every other day (ghost feeding) for two weeks and it worked well

 

[Glass Algae]

Lol....nah phone autocorrected biospira

Haha no problem. Thought I was about to learn some hidden info!

With regards to the sacrificial fish, a lot of people use a fish to produce waste that turns to ammonia to help start the cycle, but the spike of ammonia is harmful to the fish. With bottled ammonia we don't need to do this any longer. Patience is key in reefing, so making sure your cycle is compete is the best way to start!
As for the life rock, I've not looked into this so I'm unsure if it's "live" or not.
Live sand is "live" but have a look for the sand rinse thread for more information on this, it's a good read.
As for quarantine, you can use a plastic storage container if you don't have a tank big enough. If you're going to be adding fish I 100% recommend quarantining.
Corals will need to be dipped and inspected before adding to the display

I blow glass as a trade and I'm a vet so patience = zen for me which is a huge thing that drew me to reefing so I'm a ok with patience.

So I am going to grab some ammonia it seems Tim's is a universal safe bet on these forums if you have any other suggestions I'd be down for them.

When you say plastic storage container do you have an example on the type? I don't wanna accidentally get the wrong thing. I got multiple heating elements for a future qt so I have those. I guess I need to get a light for a qteen as well. Again I don't plan on keeping many fish as of now till I move and get a bigger living room display tank so if I can avoid other full set up for a qt right now and just make one that would be suitable for the max 2 fish I'll keep.

 

[homer1475]

Dr. Tims is pure ammonia chloride.

Ace brand janatorial ammonia has been used many times over with 0 issue also. Any ammonia(yes even urea) can be used, just make sure it has no surfactants(cleaning chemicals) added.