Going back to t5...

[TJ's Reef]

True

Not true corals and plants care but chlorophyll does not.
If it were true all corals would grow at the same depth.
Same as plants why some can grow in the shade and other dont.
Corals have adapted to different spectrum of light, intensities and UV. They can collect more light or shade themselves with pigments and proteins.. You change that and they change. You take away UV and eventually those colorful pigments that were used as sunblock disappear. Its one reason corals morph..

The only thing that cares about par or pur is chlorophyll ... But there is allot more to the color of corals than chlorophyl. or par or pur but that seems to be be all we focus on and that is where the problem is.. Most quality fixtures either halide, t-5 or leds produce enough par.

The biggest problem with leds is people like the pop (fluorescence) and they run too much blue. Most Sps come from shallow water and are affected by larger amounts of UV and much broader spectrum of light.. Blue is mainly for deeper water corals. What happens to sps when there is too much blue is they sometimes brown out or loose those colorful Pigments..
Some of those pigments are sunscreens or even used to block certain wave lengths they dont like, you remove them they loose those pigments,

Yes Dave, good points and not very well stated by me on the Coral versus the Chlorophyll's needs. Depth of a Corals origin and how they stay or color up is a 'very deep' subject in its own right. But even concerning the other parts of the visible spectrum the Corals cannot tell the difference between the point source as long as its there and why I feel so strongly about having/using Broad/Full Spectrum Lighting. Even Radium 10K and 20K lamps miss the 'Sweet Spot' IMHO, though both may have its purpose and fans/proponents.

Cheers, Todd

Acro, no not you at all as I believe you stated it very well as your opinion or lack of getting it just right.

 

[ReefPiracy]

Different strokes for different folks. I have always told people in reef tanks and life in general, do what works for you and what you can handle. I found leds to give me much better results over T5. Now i will say at first i was all about blue leds but over time i found that uv/red/blue produce a much better color in the fish and coral over a super washed out blue. Of course now i run two led fixtures and two t5 bulbs so

 

[mgdmirage]

I switched from 6 bulb T5s current fixture ATI bulbs to 32" Reefbreeders fixture and I honestly haven't noticed any color difference in my corals except my montis seem to be like 10x brighter and just overall much happier. My purple rim monti cap has never been so green it is almost nuclear. I did notice a slow down in a growth though but I am only running the fixture at 60% max on each channel which took me months to get to that. I also run the fixture with no optics which makes it feel like a T5 setup with shimmer.

 

[bct15]

As someone whos still relatively new to the reef keeping hobby, and who's only ever used LEDs lol, its difficult for me to have an opinion on what looks best, works best, etc. In all my browsing of lighting related threads, the one thing Ive noticed is the major difference in opinion on photoperiod with t5 vs LED. Correct me if Im wrong, but what Ive noticed is the majority of t5 users agree the lights should be run at full intensity for 8-10 hours. LED users tend to advocate a much shorter photoperiod at full intensity, usually somewhere in the range of 2-4 hours.

Now, assume youve got a t5 fixture and a LED fixture on two identical tanks, side by side. Each fixture is 150w, 16000k at full power, and achieve similar PAR numbers. The t5 runs for 9 hours at full intensity and the colors and growth are great as expected. The LED only runs for 3 hours at full intensity and the colors are good and theres some noticeable growth, but not on the same scale as the t5 lit tank. Again, assuming we have identical tanks through and through, why is the LED fixture being run so differently? Would it not make sense to run the LED at the same, or as close to the same, photoperiod as the t5?

This is all hypothetical, as I have not tested it nor seen anyone do such a comparison, but to me it makes sense. Maybe all of us LED homers have gotten too caught up in nailing that perfect sunrise/peak/sunset photoperiod that we've overlooked something so seemingly simple... food for thought, not trying to hijack, just bored at work and got to thinking lol

As a matter of fact, give me a week or so to adjust the photoperiod on my 160w Razor to mimic that of a t5 fixture and Ill start keeping track of color and growth!

Your hypothesis is something I have even posting about regularly and have even began developing a test for. However, you have it backwards, people running LEDs tend to run their total photoperiod a lot longer than t5 or mh users because they come programmed that way, fell they are saving on electricity or heat. IMO the best photoperiod is maximum daylight for five hours and supple ration lighting for an hour and a half on each end of that. I will be testing this report after I finish my dissertation.

 

[CyberGoby]

Starting my new 125gl reef and I went T5's. Lets see how it goes

 

[NanaReefer]

Wonderful info to be found here. Now if one or more of you more knowledgeable LED users could create a thread teaching those of use who are new to LED, the best way to begin applying LED's to our tanks, well this would be awesome!!

 

[Blue Reefer]

I think its a worldwide problem people not knowing how to dial in or get that perfect setting. I have two mates here in South Africa that packed up and sold there Maxspect razors because they either had slow growth or bleached there sps. I run a Chinese brand which only has cree white blue and royal blue and have been eunning my 180 gal for 10 months now with excellent growth and colour. I took things slow and acclimated very slowly only running my units at 50% intensity to start with and after 10 months have them upto 95% blue and 75% white at on for 6 hours at this intensity. My lights are on for 12 hours a day but ramp up first 3hours upto that intensity and the rampdown last 3 hours. I will never go back to any other lighting. Bottom line in this hobby is patience enjoy it and take it slow.

 

[DGee]

Best thing I did to my tank was went back to T5... Now I will say not all T5 fixtures are created equal and you definitely get what you pay for.

 

[johnanddawn]

When I see these threads I usually don't comment anymore because it makes me nostalgic and I miss some of my old systems

As someone who has run; NO, VHO, MH, PC, T5 and every combination you can imagine reef tanks each of them had attributes I miss

Most have never seen what a VHO actinic bulb does to a reef tank - even LED doesn't give that pop, but they were inefficient and had to be changed out often

There's nothing more natural then the shimmer and color of a good MH bulb, but I hated the heat in the summer and 300+ dollars to change bulbs ones a year

The color combinations one could get from T5 is awesome and the growth and color of my corals I've never been able to replicate, but changing out 8 bulbs every 8-10 months got ridiculous and I missed the shimmer of MH

LED do give pop, do grow corals, don't need constant replacement, have virtually no heat, and so many other attributes that I will likely never go back
This July I will have been fully LED for 4 years.

I do agree that most people do not give their corals enough white light when they run LED's because they don't like the color white LED"s produce. They run heavy blue which tends to under color SPS corals in their tank. They tend to run the lights to a color they find aesthetically pleasing rather then natural white, and this isn't best for their corals. I peek my whites for about 3 hours midday, a short blast of huge midday sun.
The few LPS I have don't like this much
I also think that people do not realize that LED's can vary in intensity from one spot to another much more than any other form of lighting especially if you have them hanging close to the water surface. This can lead to placement issues for corals.

When I see others change back, I simply think, good for you
Each form of lighting will do something different and whatever makes you and your tank happy is all that matters...
Good luck and enjoy the color your T5's will surely give you

 

[shred5]

First of all I work in the lighting industry. Hate to say it but led have never really made it as of yet and may never.. Have sales of led fixture increased over the years, sure it has but still is a pretty small part of the lighting industry.

We specify and I am guessing because I have never added it up but probably 50 halides to 1 led fixture and probably the same for fluorescent. And it may be way higher than that. Battery units and exit lights are almost always leds and have been since before leds were used for lighting.

The main reason led has not become main stream is they are too expensive. It is not the led that make them expensive it is the heat sink. Those heat sinks make fixtures more expensive and heavier. Sure you could put fans in but try telling a maintenance person he has to change fans out every couple of years or less in some of the environments they are in. What happens is they don’t get changed and then the company is screaming at us because his colors and output have dropped and they were promised 5 years or more. Fans also are noisy. Led creates shadows too and have terrible vertical foot-candles so they are terrible as high-bay fixtures because you can see or read what is on the rack.. My point is for leds really to be popular they need to make it in retail, industrial, offices, commercial applications and it has not yet and doubt it ever will..

The aquarium lighting sales are a very small part of the overall lighting market.
Fluorescents will rule office space for a long time. They have a softer light and make people feel better so they work harder. Halides will rule warehouse and industrial applications. One space leds have made inroads is retail display lighting and pretty much every battery unit and exit light..



Funny thing is in a little while it won’t matter because there will be a new lighting source probably plasma and it won’t matter anyway.

Those that don’t want to hear it but in another thread retailers said led sales are declining and halides picking up after a very long decline. Led is still out selling halides though. Fact is LED has hit its peak now in the hobby.. Plasma most likely will be the real killer halide because it is closer to that type of .

Led will probably be around for a while because of its controllability and cool affects… But there always is something else that is the future and then something else and then something else. In a year or so it will be is plasma killing led etc and there will be a new debate.

My real point is this there is always another future product. If you like halides then use it, if you like t-5 use it, if you like led use it.. They are all acceptable lighting sources for most of our corals. Each has their advantages and disadvantages. Main problem is we really are trying to keep corals in this little box that come from different zones and different lighting conditions and it don’t work for each type of lighting period.

 

[rdevoe11]

But that is what I have to compare.
As I said the difference is incomparable, I only miss the blue actinic leds.
I can say it wasn't as successful in my case as I ran the Radion for 12 months plus over the same tank that the T5 is over.
No other changes and now both growth and colour have improved dramatically.
Im no led hater either I have run leds for over 3 years so feel my opinion is indeed correct for my situation.
My point was light coverage which you yourself agreed with.
Im not fussed either way buddy, im happy and more importantly my tank is.
I hope you have the same enjoyment I do.
All the best
Mick

my apologies for my slight misinterpretation!

 

[rdevoe11]

Your hypothesis is something I have even posting about regularly and have even began developing a test for. However, you have it backwards, people running LEDs tend to run their total photoperiod a lot longer than t5 or mh users because they come programmed that way, fell they are saving on electricity or heat. IMO the best photoperiod is maximum daylight for five hours and supple ration lighting for an hour and a half on each end of that. I will be testing this report after I finish my dissertation.

looking forward to your test results!

what lights are you running?

 

[andybuja]

We are building our 150gal 6' and upgrading from a 4 ft Marineland pro series fixture using MH and 4x T5. Our number one concern will be healthy and growing clams. MH is the best hands down. While it is not the wattage, but the radiation affects that results in growth in both sps and clams. The same applies to T5 lightning but with out the shimmer.

Our research has realized that LED only provides color and illumination. No PAR radiation similar to that of MH or T5 just Par Equivalency in terms of brightness.

One common real product that clearly represents florescent radiation is tanning Beds. If LEDs are THE solution then I would have expected LED tanning beds to be replacing energy consuming florescent tubes by now. (MH would burn us alive)

Not being a maverick by nature, we have been holding off on the LED change over. We have read many claims and seen many examples of LED systems on tanks for over a year, but nothing longer due. In the meantime we are seeing more and more recants from LED users that are returning to MH and T5's. We have not seen any spectacular claims of clam health and growth using LED's. Please share if you have.

That said we have been looking for the next best thing. The color of LEDS and radiation of T5. We believe we have found this using a Pacific Sun Pandora s3. We envision using 2 x 10K daylight t5s for high sun times through the cycle and the LED program to mimic the 24 hour cycle. The power conservation is not going to be that much since we are using 2 x 150w MHs and 4 39w 4 foot ATI actinic. But we are looking to light a longer area which would require a 6 foot 3 x 150w MH and 8 3 foot t5.

We anticipate purchasing one in July for a 3 month acclimation before they are moved to the new 150 Gal using the same light.

Has any one had any experience with this configuration.

uUr decision is leaning towards LED with T5

 

[shred5]

We are building our 150gal 6' and upgrading from a 4 ft Marineland pro series fixture using MH and 4x T5. Our number one concern will be healthy and growing clams. MH is the best hands down. While it is not the wattage, but the radiation affects that results in growth in both sps and clams. The same applies to T5 lightning but with out the shimmer.

Our research has realized that LED only provides color and illumination. No PAR radiation similar to that of MH or T5 just Par Equivalency in terms of brightness.

One common real product that clearly represents florescent radiation is tanning Beds. If LEDs are THE solution then I would have expected LED tanning beds to be replacing energy consuming florescent tubes by now. (MH would burn us alive)

Not being a maverick by nature, we have been holding off on the LED change over. We have read many claims and seen many examples of LED systems on tanks for over a year, but nothing longer due. In the meantime we are seeing more and more recants from LED users that are returning to MH and T5's. We have not seen any spectacular claims of clam health and growth using LED's. Please share if you have.

That said we have been looking for the next best thing. The color of LEDS and radiation of T5. We believe we have found this using a Pacific Sun Pandora s3. We envision using 2 x 10K daylight t5s for high sun times through the cycle and the LED program to mimic the 24 hour cycle. The power conservation is not going to be that much since we are using 2 x 150w MHs and 4 39w 4 foot ATI actinic. But we are looking to light a longer area which would require a 6 foot 3 x 150w MH and 8 3 foot t5.

We anticipate purchasing one in July for a 3 month acclimation before they are moved to the new 150 Gal using the same light.

Has any one had any experience with this configuration.

uUr decision is leaning towards LED with T5

That pacific sun S3 looks like a step in the right direction, they just had like 100 dollars off it and I was looking into it for my next build...

I dont like the fact it has no white leds and from others saying it lacks a little par.. It also needs to have software installed and does not work right out of the box.
But this fixture looks very promising.

 

[Gwitness]

So is t5 and led combos one of the best combos??

 

[DGee]

So is t5 and led combos one of the best combos??

I think it's really the best of both worlds...

 

[Arn@ldo]

I love radium t5 led combo but I have seen much better growth coloration with T5/reefbrite

 

[Gwitness]

I have a canopy over my. Tank....can I hang t5s in there?? Or do I have to buy a fixture and do away with the canopy

 

[jservedio]

Our research has realized that LED only provides color and illumination. No PAR radiation similar to that of MH or T5 just Par Equivalency in terms of brightness.

Wrong.... LEDs put out just as much PAR as any other form of lighting. Far more PAR per watt as well. If you don't believe me, I have a PAR meter sitting on my dining room table that I would gladly take pictures of with the probe sitting anywhere in my tank.

I can bust out the old T5s or borrow an MH and do side by side testing to show that my Radion will put out JUST as much PAR as a MH and T5. Not that I need to because there are dozens of comparisons out there you can find in 3 seconds on Google...

Not that the peak PAR mattrs to me very much, but even with the wide angle TIR lenses on my Radion Pro (which cut peak PAR by almost half) I tested at 578 PAR a little below the surface at 100%@14,000K. My 4xT5HOs put out around 150 PAR in the same exact spot.

Not that the PAR at 100% matters all that much to me since I only run them at a fraction of that value (my acros are in 150-200PAR after a year sitting under them based on what they color up best in).

 

[DGee]

I have a canopy over my. Tank....can I hang t5s in there?? Or do I have to buy a fixture and do away with the canopy

Retro t5s won't perform like an actual fixture... Short answer is yes you can add them to a canopy but it won't perform like a manufactured t5 specific fixture.

Like I said earlier, all t5s aren't created equal. Active cooling and high quality reflectors are a must if you to get real performance out of any t5 setup.