Going Fallow.... (72 days of progress not punishment)

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Well since this didn't fit in the other categories I decided to put this here.

So quite a few months ago I started my current 260 build. I went with Dry Rock, Dry Sand, new equip, etc to avoid some of the issues I ran into with my 120. My main goals were to avoid Aiptasia, Monti / zoa eating nudis, AEFW, redbugs, and other pests that I ran into on my first foray into the hobby. After 5 years of struggle, aquarium moves in 14 degree weather, cracks, seam splits, fires, and the aforementioned hitchhikers I thought I came to the table with knowledge and experience to avoid any pitfall in this new project. However as I found out, human nature always gets the better of us.

Like I said human nature always gets the better of us and thats the exact conclusion I came to in a sudden moment of clarity right after dumping some new impulse buy additions directly into my DT without any type of QT or practice in place. So this is where I initially found myself. It began with me chastising myself an then discovering an unidentifiable ailment accosting my new pair of impulse clownish. After a few weeks of struggle and with the help of many forums and the R2R community I found the solution to problem (3 problems actually: ich, brook, HLLE) and started to turn my thoughts on the future. A future in which I did not want to have to deal with any of the BS I had recently subjected myself to.

So this is where the master of all things sick and fishy comes in to play. After pouring over quite possibly most if not all of Humblefish's posts and comments on fish sicknesses, diseases, and parasites I knew the only way to avoid issues in the future is to bite the bullet and go fallow. While this didn't daunt me as I had spent months culturing my rock and substrate I did notice a strange patter in how people discussed going fishless or fallow for the necessary 72 day time period. When discussing it people usually avoided the issue until it was the last option to consider. The tonality used when offering or considering the solution is subdued and almost defeated. Heck, when i brought it up to my LFS guy his voice dropped to barely above a whisper when we discussed it. From what Iv been able to gather people just dont recognize it as the best solution for a reef enthusiast most common biological assailants.

Anyway, Iv decided to take a new approach to going fallow. First off I plan to be enthusiastic about it. Rather than being a punishment I plan to use it to hone my skills and knowledge and plan more than I have before. I also plan to incorporate an idea I had after my initial decision to going fishless. The idea was to plan out 72 days of individual projects and improvements for my aquarium. Since my build is only about 60% complete this will allow me to complete the finishing work I have left to do, along with give me time to get to know the personality of my new aquarium. And for all the naysayers out there, each aquarium does have a personality separate form the organisms that inhabit it.

So here I am, trying to make a list of 72 individual projects to keep my mind occupied. Id love to hear some feedback and any ideas for the project list. Also would like to hear thoughts on QT methods and TTM strategies with the equipment I have on hand.

Here are some overall Stats:
Tank: 260g 72x30x28 with BeanAnimal style overflow. Planning on using the Triton method so large sump with semi large fuge (50 gallon)

Lighting:
(Current)
Some 8 Bulb t5 setup
(Planed)
3x 250w MH, Reefbrite LG reflectors mogul base and im thinking of running twinarcs or radeons
Reefbrite LED Supplemental (May DIY this to fit hood)

Misc Equip:
Apex Classic
Dosing Pump (Not Apex Friendly)
GEO Calcium reactor


Tanks been up for about 2 months (<fully functioning>, rock and sand were cultured for 7 months prior to final assembly) and has 4 inhabitants currently.
2x Misbar Black Clowns
1x Japanese Swollowtail Angel
1x Scopas Tang.

The other additions were donated to me from a friend who was getting out of the hobby.

The overall plan for the tank is to be acro dominant, with a zoa and acan garden on my two prize pukani boulders.

Current 72day project list includes the following:
1) Melev Style ceiling track for my hood.
2) Floating Hood Design & Construction
3) Finish installing apex classic and calibrate probes
4) Apex coding and automation setup
5) Fish Closet Design / Build out
6) Wire organization and labeling
7) Fire alarm install in closet and stand
8) QT / Hospital Tank design, layout, and construction
9) Frag Tank plumbing design, placement, installation
10) Mixing station Design
11) Finish Stand with Cabinet doors and paint.
12) Stand / Closet Ventilation system
13) Run dedicated Ethernet Cable Through walls to Apex
14) Run RO/DI Line through walls to Fish Closet/mixing station
15) Fix my number 2 return pumps bulkhead (leaks)
16) Fix my number 3 drain elbow (small drip)
17) Cut and seal a hole in the wall to pass wires and plumbing between closet and tank.
18) Mesh cover for aquarium
19) Glue down more adventurous rockscape elements
20) Find backup power solution for heaters.
21) Complete my 2 stage matheson regulator project for my calcium reactor.



Last but not least some progress Pics. Also Id love to hear some input on weather or not it would be a good idea to start getting some of the fish I have on my stocklist and start QTing them. I know with QTing and using the TTM ill have some downtime between the fish are finished with QT and the fallow period finishing. But since the main additions I want are Leopard Wrasses Im worried about the pod situation in my QT tanks along with that added stress. That and adding a ton of fish all at once after my fallow period sounds like a recipe for disaster no matter how peaceful the fish.



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Welcome. I understand the fallow period stinks. Throw an urchin or two in so you have something that moves to look at lol. Couple shrimp, you know.

I am huge leopard wrasse fan. Just moved two potters leopards to my DT from QT last night.

I have 5 species of leopards in my DT. All of mine have been through copper. I don't use pods in QT. I do keep a small Pyrex dish with caribsea Fiji pink dry sand in all QTs for them to burrow at night.
 
Meh it is what it is. Im honestly looking forward to the fallow period compared to the ordeal its going to take to get that angel and tang out. But thats my own doing since I wanted some time to think about it and fatten them up. If you dont mind I have a couple of questions on your wrasse experience id like your opinion on.

1) Are you keeping those 5 species of leopards in pairs or are a few solo and in what sized tank?
2) Have you noticed any aggression between them apart from typical strutting and flashing?
3) Since I know wrasses are sensitive to copper, which type of copper did you use over what time period and why?
4) I havent seen anyone post this yet but is it beneficial to use fine sand vs semi course / flake or vice versa when QTing Wrasses? My display is all fiji pink but I dont have any of it spare. I do have some fine arganite that I was planning on using since I can toss it out after use.
5) Lastly since I see youve gotten some potters through QT did you ween them on some other foods or did they come in hungry?
 
I would only QT one or two fish at a time just to avoid adding another that has something that requires extensive meds and just might kill them all!
Once the DT is ready then one or two can go into it when ready and then and only then should you be ready for more QT fish.
 
Im with you on this but i forgot to mention that I have a separate tank (Frag 80gal) that the Qted fish will be using as a home after the process completes. I will have a 29 Biocube, 40gal breeder, 100 gal custom lagoon, 2x rubbermaid bins, and a 150 to use for TTM / QT.
 
Meh it is what it is. Im honestly looking forward to the fallow period compared to the ordeal its going to take to get that angel and tang out. But thats my own doing since I wanted some time to think about it and fatten them up. If you dont mind I have a couple of questions on your wrasse experience id like your opinion on.

1) Are you keeping those 5 species of leopards in pairs or are a few solo and in what sized tank?
2) Have you noticed any aggression between them apart from typical strutting and flashing?
3) Since I know wrasses are sensitive to copper, which type of copper did you use over what time period and why?
4) I havent seen anyone post this yet but is it beneficial to use fine sand vs semi course / flake or vice versa when QTing Wrasses? My display is all fiji pink but I dont have any of it spare. I do have some fine arganite that I was planning on using since I can toss it out after use.
5) Lastly since I see youve gotten some potters through QT did you ween them on some other foods or did they come in hungry?

I use the cheap PetCo sand in my QT, in a tupperwear container.

He uses CopperPower for his copper.

Here is his method.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-current-qt-process.483371/
 
Iv read his post before. The link provides a great recipe on how to do it but not the why. Id like to know if he ran into issues with TTM or if the combination of meds / method he utilized improved the success compared to other practices. Unfortunately, im the kind of guy who wants to know the emotion and reasoning behind the choice. For instance, taking a wrasse direct from store to preloaded copper water is against what alot information out there suggests. I want to know what thought process led him to contradict that info and caused him to adapt the well versed solution with something that looks more extreme but possibly more beneficial for the livestock coming in.

Usually I seen that bit linked in text only not to OP. Totally reading up on it now, thanks gain Josh
 
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Iv read his post before. The link provides a great recipe on how to do it but not the why. Id like to know if he ran into issues with TTM or if the combination of meds / method he utilized improved the success compared to other practices. Unfortunately, im the kind of guy who wants to know the emotion and reasoning behind the choice. For instance, taking a wrasse direct from store to preloaded copper water is against what alot information out there suggests. I want to know what thought process led him to contradict that info and caused him to adapt the well versed solution with something that looks more extreme but possibly more beneficial for the livestock coming in.

Usually I seen that bit linked in text only not to OP. Totally reading up on it now, thanks gain Josh

One of the issues with introducing fish to copper was that we had no good way to measure copper accurately back then. Since the Hanna copper meter has been approved for use with marine aquariums, people have had much better results when treating fish with copper.
 
One of the issues with introducing fish to copper was that we had no good way to measure copper accurately back then. Since the Hanna copper meter has been approved for use with marine aquariums, people have had much better results when treating fish with copper.
I cannot stress this enough. The Hanna checker also exposed immense inconsistencies in some copper potencies of certain products (such as CopperSafe which has been astonishingly unpredictable and deadly in many cases). So far, most other products are consistent. Copper Power has come out on top, IMO.
 
TTM doesn't cover velvet, that's the only reason I do copper personally.

If you observe after TTM, you should catch velvet, but honestly by that point, its usually too late. Once you know velvet is in action, you need to ramp up copper quickly, which is rough on fish (although not as bad now with the Hanna checker).

You said above "2x rubbermaid bins, and a 150 to use for TTM / QT". The 150 wouldn't really make sense for TTM or QT (if you are medicating, since the cost to treat 150gallons would be crazy), as you need to fully break down, sanitize, and let completely dry every 72 hours. With your 4 fish load, I would follow @HotRocks's guide in a smaller or multiple tanks. 14 days of copper, swap to another tank to observe / treat for anything else that may arise in your fallow period.
 
I’m on day-43 of going fallow... I love your attitude. Get yourself some giant Fighting Conch and a bunch of Emerald Crabs, and like someone else mentioned, you’ll ‘at least have something to look at!’ The Conch will do your tank (sand) wonders going forward. ;)
 
Well as time passes things change. Totally reading up on Hotrocks methodology now.

Here is the deal.. And why I/we (Me + @4FordFamily + @Humblefish) have had to adapt to these methods of QT

I am not a fan of TTM or hypo for Prophylactic treatment because it does not eradicate velvet.

The two biggest issues currently are Velvet and Gram negative bacterial infections. So we have had to resort to combining copper and antibiotics to make this work. Still actively trying to figure out what works the best without negative results or fish reactions.

I was experiencing bacterial infections that couldn't be reversed with fish in copper in the 20-30 day range. This is why I switched to the combination of 14days of copper and transfer to a sterile QT. Copper weakens the immune system heavily, it is poison after all. So less time in copper overall the better.

We are still working on what meds are best (Safely) combined with copper in order to combat this and completely minimize fish loss in QT. I have pushed several fish through this adapted process with minimal loss.
Meh it is what it is. Im honestly looking forward to the fallow period compared to the ordeal its going to take to get that angel and tang out. But thats my own doing since I wanted some time to think about it and fatten them up. If you dont mind I have a couple of questions on your wrasse experience id like your opinion on.

1) Are you keeping those 5 species of leopards in pairs or are a few solo and in what sized tank?
2) Have you noticed any aggression between them apart from typical strutting and flashing?
3) Since I know wrasses are sensitive to copper, which type of copper did you use over what time period and why?
4) I havent seen anyone post this yet but is it beneficial to use fine sand vs semi course / flake or vice versa when QTing Wrasses? My display is all fiji pink but I dont have any of it spare. I do have some fine arganite that I was planning on using since I can toss it out after use.
5) Lastly since I see youve gotten some potters through QT did you ween them on some other foods or did they come in hungry?

1) Only single Female Bluestar, Female Meleagris, Transitioning Ornate, Male Moyeri, and now the pair of potters. My next addition will be either a pair of Choatis or a Trio. (I have to get a Fem first!)
2) Nothing Major, pecking order disputes.
3) 14 Days of therapeutic Copper Power at 1.75ppm with hanna checker.
4) I think any fine/semi-fine will work. It just needs to be physically fine enough for the fish to burrow in.
5) I always start leopards on Live blackworms and most of the time I keep live brine shrimp on hand when fish are in QT. I usually have them weaned onto my frozen mixture within a few days to a week and discontinue the use of live food. I don't feed any live foods in my DT just because I am a freak about Cross contamination. I do buy my live food from a store that carries both fresh and SW fish so who knows what is in the food water!. In theory the live blackworms should be DT Safe since they are FW. But I don't want to have to deal with keeping them and worry about cross contamination of the keeper etc.
 
It may be out there but I somehow got distracted and ended up just now on the tail end of a tang compatibility thread. But is that "my frozen mixture" recipe somewhere on here? Due to this whole ordeal Experience Im with you on the cross contamination issues. By the way hows your experience been with cultivating blackworms? I noticed the guy in Cali's is no longer shipping Blackworms and unfortunately I have a CBB on my stocking list so iv been trying to source them from somewhere else other than ebay.
 
Been thinking about that actually @JumboShrimp Iv been trying to find a good sifter that isnt a diamond goby or other large goby. My overall plan is to take a lesson i learned when the nano bug bit me and use small fish and amplify the space. Iv thought about conchs vs. cucumbers vs. seahairs vs. Nas Sails. vs. Sifting stars but I cant decide on which to use. I need something thats stays small, safe, and not a bulldozer.
 
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I’ve bought them from my LFS the size of an entire thumb—which would be good for a smaller tank— and the size of a child’s fist (pictured). They are absolute workhorses. They never climb the glass, but rather stay in the sand, ranging from on top, to 3/4 buried.
 

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