Wow a lot of people defending companies that are robbing them blind.
I dint know about grow lights, but I use led shop lights in all my freshwater and those grow my plants like crazy.
for my reefs, I either buy used LED’s or but Agriculture T5 fixtures and switch the bulbs to ATI.
if any has ever build and led fixture it costs under 200 bucks for every 2x2 feet that is covered PROPERLY. Not talking like an AI prime. But leds end to end. Tack on acrylic for fancy looks and a name brand and somehow that’s Andes up to 1200. And R&D is almost nonexistent or these papers would be published. Eco tech did some research back before G4 and that’s about all I can think of off the top of my head. Pumps are also overpriced. I can’t wait for the MP40 patent to run out so jebao can copy it.
and before I hear about reliability I purchased a used jebao, ran it for 2 years without cleaning it and lost it in a move. Never died with over 4 years of heavy use.
The point being is that these companies are robbing us blind with 5-10x profit margins and we are doing nothing about it. Good thread
P.S. Didint want to derail the thread but coral suppliers do the same thing. You would never guess the wholesale price in some of these corals that go for 100’s of dollars.
I wouldn't call it robbing us blind. There are lots of cheap options out there...I don't want those, I am not going have a hood on my tank, so the light housing needs to look pleasing. Again, having the control of the channels is worth the price of admission.
What is a cost of an ATI bulb...$20?, if you have a 6 light fixture, that is $120 roughly every year, so in 5 years $600 an LED could go 10 years, so not $1200 just in bulbs, not counting the fixture...plus absolute lack of control and minimal color mixing. Frankly...I haven't seen color as good as the Radions get on the market. AI runs a close second...everything else is just too blue or too white. There is reason so MANY top tanks run Radions and I can assure it is not because it has ecotech's name on it. It is the color, the software, the look, the controllability, etc. Not just that it has some LED's in it. Sure, it is a matter of opinion on color...but they dominate the market with a ton of other options out there. That is not because Ecotech is better at marketing.
A Camry can get me back and forth to work without issue, it also can have all the fancy options in the world and I would still rather have a Lexus, a Mercedes, an Audi, etc, Sometimes it is more then the core fundamentals that people will pay for.
Just cause you have had good luck with cheaper alternatives, doesn't mean that is the case as a whole...
Sure when the patent runs out, they can copy it...however, if that company hadn't actually produced it then there would be nothing for them to copy. It is because companies believed that creating something like MP series would land with folks willing to pay a higher premium price and so they went down the road of time and expense to develop it. It could have flopped and they would be out lots and lots money. Typically in life, the greater the risk, the greater the reward. That goes for anything...hell, even gambling. If I double up betting $2, it is insignificant, if I double up betting $100k, now we are onto something. Without them doing taking that risk and spending that money on a maybe, Jebo would have nothing to rip off.
The naming of corals has been going on forever and does raise the price, however it allows people to follow certain corals. I have been really out of the hobby for awhile and they have ramped it up as of lately. However, there is more then just the cost of coral that goes into the prices.
The beauty of this country is that if you want "buck the trend" of this industry...you can go rent space, set up tanks, start vendor relations, pre-buy corals, cut them up, buy a nice camera and good macro lens, take photos of them, buy shipping supplies and then ship them out. Then you get to answer questions every, deal with DOA's (legitimate but mostly not legitimate), etc.
You can then also go into the design process of your LED light, once you have a design, pay to have pre-production units done, test them for a year or so without money coming in, then make adjustments, then place a order (usually large quantity), design the packaging and buy those supplies (usually in large amounts), get them here, market them, handle the customer service side, etc. That doesn't even factor in making a robust back end like AI or Ecotech, that allows massive control of all these things. I can assure you no one is stopping you from doing this...so please, please go make a similar light to Ecotech or AI for $200.
You would be surprised how thin the margins are on businesses...Id be willing to bet dollars to donuts, they aren't making the crazy money you think they are. However, maybe they are emailing customers from their custom gold p private jet that they take to Paris for the weekend and to get some begets.
, yet it seems to be the norm in this hobby for decades and i think that has a reason
