Gyre VS MP40's For 180

[Husker]

I'm also taking into account the maintenance on the pumps. I already have the Icecap version in my 93 cube and the gyres literally SUCK to clean. The Maxspects are even worse because there's more parts, but a better overall pump than the Icecap model. I didn't realize how cheap the Ecotech's were until after ordering the Maxspects.

It's also that the Ecotech is a wider flow pattern than the Tunze.

Agreed, the biggest downside to the gyres for me was the pain of taking them apart and putting them back together for cleaning. Agreed that the Vortechs have a wider flow than the Tunze. I think people don't take this into account and try to get vortechs to reach too long in a tank. With an SPS tank, I wouldn't try to make an MP60 go further than 4 feet (or an MP40 3 feet). The velocity of the water just dwindles too much with distance from the pump. The upside is that you really don't have to worry about corals being in very close proximity to the powerheads, because they are blasting a jet out.

You can't go wrong with either pump but how does rock work affect one power head over another? Somehow the gyre's flow gets blocked but the mp40 Doesn't? Sounds a bit far fetched to me. If anything, the gyre will move more water arond rock work due to its design. The whole heat transfer thing is not a big deal, the gyre won't put out noticble heat to where it will be a problem. The tunze power heads are a great water mover too.

Rocks probably do play a part in powerhead effectiveness, but I agree that Gyres are probably less susceptible to rocks blocking the flow than Vortechs. The Vortechs have such diffuse flow that it can get really blocked by rocks. Gyres and Tunze pumps maintain velocity even with the rock obstructions, in my experience.

 

[mcarroll]

I rather have more power and be able to turn it down.

Two m40's is not going to be that kind of system.....even at 100% all the time, not using any of the "fun modes" they will be soft and barely adequate.

I already had my brother order the Mp40's also.

It's good to buy and try!

Like I said, flow from two 40's will be about similar to one 6150 (check out the 150G video....very close to your tank's size and shape....check out some other vids too.)

But the price for two 40's is more.......a single 6150 is only $345 at full retail. Either way you're talking about a minimal flow installation that's going to need an upgrade if you decide to get more into corals. (Which is what you described as your need.)

Looking at what you'll spend on three mp40's vs a pair of 6105's or even 6150's makes the cost difference more clear.

Like I said, it's odd that they were on sale for retailers, but not for consumers.

Not sure what makes you say that's odd. I'm guessing you don't work in retail though since talking about wholesale prices in the first place is sorta verboten.

I'll probably just return the gyres unless someone here wants to buy them for 20% off brand new.

Did I miss a detail, or are you getting a wholesale hookup, talking about it in front of a huge crowd of people who can't get that same hookup, and then talking about turning around and selling to that crowd used for what you paid for them (or more) brand new?

I didn't realize how cheap the Ecotech's were until after ordering the Maxspects.

Yes....but not inexpensive.

It's also that the Ecotech is a wider flow pattern than the Tunze.

This is not really true. (And not a reason you stated initially as being important....which is OK.)

As someone else mentioned, the 6105 has always come with a wide flow nozzle (which is perfect for your tank) as well as an extra-wide flow nozzle that's a lot like the wide flow you get from any other pump on the market including korellia and vortech, etc but still not being a limited design. If wide flow was the top priority, then the 6150 would be a much better bet than the vortech.....5 year warranty and the tank-like build quality are only the first two reasons I'd mention.

But again, buying and trying is where it's at – you (and your corals) can decide for yourself!

If you can swing the budget, get a set of Tunze in the tank alongside the current pumps for A/B comparison.

 

[Husker]

If you can swing the budget, get a set of Tunze in the tank alongside the current pumps for A/B comparison.

I did a side by side comparison and my MP60 didn't compare with my Tunze 6105 in my 5' tank. The Ecotechs do seem to have a wider flow, though, to my eyes. Maybe this perception is due to the fact that the majority of flow coming out of an MP40 is in the first 1-2 feet out of the pump before it starts really diffusing upward.

 

[shoelaceike]

I have used both on my 180. The Gyre moves a lot of water but I've had multiple issues at around a year. It is also a pain to clean and the parts don't feel great quality. Right now I'm using an MP40 and a small Tunze and I'm happy with the flow. The MP40 can also be hooked up to the ecotech battery so that's another benefit. You should also consider the Jabeo pumps. I've heard good things about them and they are a fraction of the above.

 

[mcarroll]

The Ecotechs do seem to have a wider flow, though, to my eyes.

Interesting!

Did you think the mp40 was a lot wider than the XL-wide shroud, or just a little wider? Definitely would not be identical as there is still a degree of shroud to facilitate directing the flow on the XL where the mp40 is just a propellor spinning freely in a cage anchored to the wall of the tank, so I wouldn't have an expectation they'd be that much the same.

I remember trying the XL-wide cover when they came out with it, but I don't think I ever really used it and I doubt I compared it directly with anything. (Just doing install jobs there is limited opportunity for experimentation.) The main cover for the 6105 was so perfect for a 180G that I may have even forgotten about the XL-wide cover for a while. I guess the XL would probably be great for big, stubby or weirdly shaped tanks like cubes or half-moons. On more than one occasion a pair of 6105's turned a 180G "wide flow detritus farm" into a reef instantaneously for me so they became a no-brainer flow solution....even back then when they cost A LOT MORE. The first time I replaced a pair of other pumps in a 180G with a new set of 6105's it was literally shocking to see how much detritus the old pumps had allowed to settle in just a year or two.

 

[Husker]

Interesting!

Did you think the mp40 was a lot wider than the XL-wide shroud, or just a little wider? Definitely would not be identical as there is still a degree of shroud to facilitate directing the flow on the XL where the mp40 is just a propellor spinning freely in a cage anchored to the wall of the tank, so I wouldn't have an expectation they'd be that much the same.

I remember trying the XL-wide cover when they came out with it, but I don't think I ever really used it and I doubt I compared it directly with anything. (Just doing install jobs there is limited opportunity for experimentation.) The main cover for the 6105 was so perfect for a 180G that I may have even forgotten about the XL-wide cover for a while. I guess the XL would probably be great for big, stubby or weirdly shaped tanks like cubes or half-moons. On more than one occasion a pair of 6105's turned a 180G "wide flow detritus farm" into a reef instantaneously for me so they became a no-brainer flow solution....even back then when they cost A LOT MORE. The first time I replaced a pair of other pumps in a 180G with a new set of 6105's it was literally shocking to see how much detritus the old pumps had allowed to settle in just a year or two.

I don't know about how much wider. It might just be that the jet disperses and dies more quickly on the Vortechs, giving the appearance of a wider flow. I do have the narrower cover on my 6105s now just to make it so they hit the far wall of my peninsula with some velocity. I only had the wider head on for a short while, so I may be misremembering.

 

[William Norman]

Forsaken, I think you should setup a bake off in your tank and sell the video to the winning pump manufacture.

 

[mcarroll]

Forsaken, I think you should setup a bake off in your tank and sell the video to the winning pump manufacture.

To an extent that video already exists: Video - Flow vs. Turbulence

But I'd like to see a @Forsaken77 update to it!!!

 

[Forsaken77]

Two m40's is not going to be that kind of system.....even at 100% all the time, not using any of the "fun modes" they will be soft and barely adequate.



It's good to buy and try!

Like I said, flow from two 40's will be about similar to one 6150 (check out the 150G video....very close to your tank's size and shape....check out some other vids too.)

But the price for two 40's is more.......a single 6150 is only $345 at full retail. Either way you're talking about a minimal flow installation that's going to need an upgrade if you decide to get more into corals. (Which is what you described as your need.)

Looking at what you'll spend on three mp40's vs a pair of 6105's or even 6150's makes the cost difference more clear.



Not sure what makes you say that's odd. I'm guessing you don't work in retail though since talking about wholesale prices in the first place is sorta verboten.



Did I miss a detail, or are you getting a wholesale hookup, talking about it in front of a huge crowd of people who can't get that same hookup, and then talking about turning around and selling to that crowd used for what you paid for them (or more) brand new?



Yes....but not inexpensive.



This is not really true. (And not a reason you stated initially as being important....which is OK.)

As someone else mentioned, the 6105 has always come with a wide flow nozzle (which is perfect for your tank) as well as an extra-wide flow nozzle that's a lot like the wide flow you get from any other pump on the market including korellia and vortech, etc but still not being a limited design. If wide flow was the top priority, then the 6150 would be a much better bet than the vortech.....5 year warranty and the tank-like build quality are only the first two reasons I'd mention.

But again, buying and trying is where it's at – you (and your corals) can decide for yourself!

If you can swing the budget, get a set of Tunze in the tank alongside the current pumps for A/B comparison.

The gyres I bought myself because they were 20% off, plus I had a $25 rewards certificate from MD. I don't bother my brother to buy every single item for me, especially an item I'm not sure about keeping and may return. I don't return things I ask him to get for me or items that are on sale or inexpensive. Clear? Good then ;Happy.

And as far as selling the gyres to anyone here, it was a more tongue-in-cheek comment because I said everyone is gonna have me spending $1,200 on powerheads. Thought that was a given

Anyway, I was talking about selling them brand new at 20% off, not used. Someone may want the opportunity to buy them at 20% off if I decide to return them. You can't return them used, also a given. Figured I'd give someone a chance to save around $100 on them first rather than paying full price before I return them because maybe they didn't have the money to spend during the 2 day sale. I wouldn't sell them for more than I paid here and I'd also lose the $25 in rewards. I know if I was looking for a pair of those and someone was selling them brand new in the box for 20% off, I'd be all over it.

I kind of assumed, being I was comparing gyres and MP40's, that a wider flow pattern was the objective. Maybe I should've been more clear. ;Dead

I've never, ever, used a Tunze product. Which is my hesitation ;Stop. I didn't know they even had wider flow nozzles until you just mentioned it. All I read on them is that the 6105 is a jet stream and a big, bulky pump.

I also said I may throw in a Pulsing Xenia for nutrient export, not adding corals . Plus they don't like being blasted anyway. But I don't even consider a Xenia as "getting into corals." It's more of a cool macro algae to me to perform a function.

And no, I don't work in retail, obviously. But I thought when a manufacturer drops the msrp, it trickles down to the consumer. And maybe wholesale prices shouldn't be forbidden on a consumer forum. People should know if they're getting ripped off on items. When a mark-up on something is over 200%, that's a ripoff imo. Definitely not the case with the items discussed here though. But I can understand sponsor wise why that could be an issue. My bad .

I have experience with a gyre, but the cleaning sucks. Great flow, but a pain. My brother uses two MP40's on his AI SR-120 tank, which is also 6 feet long, 24 inches wide, and doesn't even have them at 100% in a heavily populated sps tank with tons of frags and colonies. So I've seen them in action.

Does the Tunze 6105, with the wide flow pattern nozzle reach farther than the MP40? Maybe I'll return the gyres and ask him to get me those as well and compare those 2 models. And if they work better than the Ecotech's, I'll be the first to admit it.

 

[Forsaken77]

I have used both on my 180. The Gyre moves a lot of water but I've had multiple issues at around a year. It is also a pain to clean and the parts don't feel great quality. Right now I'm using an MP40 and a small Tunze and I'm happy with the flow. The MP40 can also be hooked up to the ecotech battery so that's another benefit. You should also consider the Jabeo pumps. I've heard good things about them and they are a fraction of the above.

Do you have the 1st gen Maxspects or 2nd gen version?

 

[Forsaken77]

Forsaken, I think you should setup a bake off in your tank and sell the video to the winning pump manufacture.

Lol... Good idea

 

[Antics]

I'm once again casting a vote for the Vortech. I think they have amazing longevity/reliability and the cleaning of the wet side is a cake walk. Also love the battery back up and no cords in the tank!

 

[Forsaken77]

On more than one occasion a pair of 6105's turned a 180G "wide flow detritus farm" into a reef instantaneously for me so they became a no-brainer flow solution....even back then when they cost A LOT MORE. The first time I replaced a pair of other pumps in a 180G with a new set of 6105's it was literally shocking to see how much detritus the old pumps had allowed to settle in just a year or two.

The thing is I'm not trying to flow for a reef, nor a sand storm. I would definitely like a detritus clearing pump setup without blasting the fish around the tank.

How would you position 2 6105's to accomplish that? Would you face them at each other? Would you use a wider deflector? I need more details because you seem to think these are the holy grail for a 180. I want to understand why you think that without any bias in the mix.

 

[Forsaken77]

I'm once again casting a vote for the Vortech. I think they have amazing longevity/reliability and the cleaning of the wet side is a cake walk. Also love the battery back up and no cords in the tank!

Well I already ordered them and there's no turning back on those. The gyres I can return.

Have you used 2 MP40's in a 180 or similarly large tank?

I also love the cleaning portion. Easiest you can get. Does the dry side stay stuck to the glass when you remove the wet side?

 

[shoelaceike]

Do you have the 1st gen Maxspects or 2nd gen version?

I had first generation

 

[Forsaken77]

Double post

 

[Forsaken77]

Double post

 

[Brew12]

The thing is I'm not trying to flow for a reef, nor a sand storm. I would definitely like a detritus clearing pump setup without blasting the fish around the tank.

How would you position 2 6105's to accomplish that? Would you face them at each other? Would you use a wider deflector? I need more details because you seem to think these are the holy grail for a 180. I want to understand why you think that without any bias in the mix.

You mount them side by side on one end about 12" apart. Create a great gyre flow

 

[mcarroll]

You can't return them used, also a given.

If you didn't do any more than test them in your tank and you cleaned and dried them after, the store where I used to work (now closed after 16 years) would have taken them back. You should ask your hookup – they might!

How would you position 2 6105's to accomplish that? [...] I want to understand why you think that without any bias in the mix.

I'm not sure I wish to appear unbiased since I'm trying to relate my experience....my experience definitely biases me.

But I'm not biased toward/away from any make or model of pump per se, so I'll tell you good ways to start with both pumps – Vortech or Stream. And then I'll give you another solid reason for my own pick.

• If you want to run a 180G reef (i.e. a tank where corals are a priority) with mp40's, then I'd suggest three across the back of the tank as a minimum. They need to be just above the rock work, so that may somewhat limit rock work or pump placement. This keeps each mp from being "responsible" for more than 2'x2' of tank....about what it can handle.

• If you want to run a 180G reef with 6105's, then I'd suggest two. Put them almost anywhere you want – behind the rocks out of view, inside ceramic covers, both on one end, one on each end facing each other. All winning placement strategies. These are pumps worthy of experimenting with – capable of a wider variety of placement options than other pumps. So use any online guidance, including this, as a starting point and experiment freely! (Someone mentioned battery backup...every Tunze DC pump can hook up to their battery backup connector.)

• Another reason for my pick is the Flow vs Turbulence video which I think I mentioned earlier and which pointed out the difference in flow velocity between these pumps. Here's one reason that velocity is important (any pilots out there?): Lift! Velocity does most of work of lifting and moving detritus in the tank. Half the velocity can mean half the detritus-moving power. This journal article looked at this effect of flow in lifting detritus:
  Function of Funnel-Shaped Coral Growth in a High-Sedimentation Environment

Well I already ordered them and there's no turning back on those.

Unless budget demands it (which would be the normal course of things) I wouldn't turn back on any of them! Taking someone's advice on the internet is waaaaaay less expensive and can make an excellent starting point, but testing these pumps first hand for yourself would be a great experience to have as long as you have the resources (including time)!!

Speaking of budget, have you considered AC pumps (Turbelle® stream) instead of controllable ones (Turbelle® stream electronic)? There's no particular reason you need controllable for a reef, let alone to get a FOWLR started. I have two mature stony coral reef tanks and one has AC pumps and the other controllable, for example. A pair of 6085's or 6125's or any combination of these or other pumps would work. Tunze has posted the functional range of each of their pumps, so you can plan out flow for specific zones of your tank if you wanted to vs trying to flow the whole tank with one plan from one set of pumps. One way or the other might be better for your situation.

 

[Pivitol]