Had anyone ever gotten sick from these????

[jnj97]

off topic your in ny have you been checked for lyme disease the ticks are rampant this year and what your describing is very similar

No I haven't

 

[jnj97]

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6431a4.htm

This is a good page to print out me have handy in case you have to go to the hospital or dr.

I have the same ones in my tank, green button polyps.

They do not actually sting, it is thought it is the slime that's contians the toxins. The toxins are then able to be absorbed through the skin, no open wound required (someone mentioned treating a sting, that is why I mentioned this).

I have had similar symptoms after accidentally touching them and getting the slime on me. I do agree with saltwaterpicaso, it is the same feeling as Lyme disease (I have had Lyme since March 2012).

Thank you

 

[Sistawolf]

Here is one handlers opinion on types to avoid:
Read the long post by trawkins:

• *Palythoa Grandis is the bad one. Google has accurate pictures.
  *Powderless nitrile gloves are sufficient, heavy duty recommended
  *wear eye protection when working with any zoa (especially above water)
  *actual threat of common zoos (ornamental, small headed) is extremely low. Even after being well-exposed, they are rarely a threat. You may get some tingling or numbness (usually not threatening) if you do have exposure.
  *cutting zoas underwater does not increase your chances of getting exposed in most cases. The only thing is that palytoxin is environmentally stable. It will stay in the water until you remove it or it becomes denatured over time. The worst part about it is that it slightly increases your chance of exposure purely because it may get on you, and not washing your hands/arms before eating may expose you.
  *any kind of cut or compromise in your skin only allows stings to get the toxin in, it will not enter you through the water unless you are actively bleeding.
  *all zoas "have lethal levels of palytoxin". Do your best not to chew and swallow a whole colony and your actual risk for mortality is EXTREMELY low.
  *read on for more details, I love this marine science stuff. Plus i get to work with P.Grandis and all kinds of zoas on the reg
  
  I can ask my boss about the kind we keep, but I'm almost completely sure its P. Grandis that are the most deadly. The large headed Palys are known to be the worst, but there are one or two specific species that are really bad. We use long sleeve gloves and sealed goggles, and masks/respirators when working with these specifically, and do not sell them to anyone but verified expert reef-keepers. Cutting these particular ones, or pressuring them above water can cause the toxin to be aerosolized and ingested through the lungs (this is actually dangerous). The toxin can affect you if it is released into water and you have fresh, wet cuts (the toxin in solution will not permeate skin, it only get to you in water if you are stung by the coral in the water). Palytoxin is the second most deadly, naturally-occurring, organic compound on earth (it is a neurotoxin) and these Palys definitely have the capacity to kill you with minimal contact. But do not fear, the ugly ones are the deadly ones and also the least common in this trade. Palytoxin must be introduced to the blood to take effect, this is done by contacting a blood vessel to a Palythoa mucous membrane, or being stung (P. Grandis can sting through bare skin a fair amount of time, with greater or lesser degrees of toxin delivery) (also, papercuts dont count unless you are actively bleeding). Most of the prettier ornamental zoas offer very little risk. They only can be damaging if you ingest a significant amount of slime or parts, touch them to a bleeding wound, or work with them for a very long time. If it is P. Grandis that im thinking about, touching them unprotected can lead to (depending on the success of delivery) both major or minor symptoms (numbness, temporary paralysis, heart/breathing problems and general pain - death). Otherwise, most other zoas are basically harmless. There is always potential to be sensitive to palytoxin, and touching even the harmless zoas can produce very mild symptoms (which are not in the slightest life threatening (usually its just some tingling sensation that lasts a few hours)). My friend however, who has worked for several years ungloved around these "harmless" zoas, actually has developed erosion in his joints from exposure.
  
  DO NOT let this stop you from owning zoas, some of the prettiest things in the sea.

And another from poison control on tips for those who help you out in your household...
https://www.planetzoa.com/blogs/tip-of-the-day/9342179-palytoxin-data-sheet

Wow. Nice to know! Thanks for clarifying as I am a zoa freak

 

[Sistawolf]

Yesterday we switched everything from tge 55 into the 125 and today I have a bad headache, my body hurts and I've been nauseous. I need done advice here. I think I just might throw them out.

How are you feeling? When is your DRs appt? Please keep us updated

 

[Debramb]

I hope you're ok, sounds like fibromyalgia. I guess all green button payls aren't toxic, I hand a LR covered in them with a ribbon worm I keep dipping in and out of freshwater trying to kill it, the polyps retreated and the mat had good grip. No problems, won't chance again

 

[jd371]

jnj97 I hope you're feeling better. I'm glad I saw this thread before this weekend. I have a single rock with the same Paly's and they are encroaching on a rock with a small colony of Rastas, I'm afraid that they will spread beyond the Rastas onto other rocks with more Zoas. I'm planning on pulling out the colony of Paly's along with the small rock of Rastas and cutting them apart from each other. After reading this thread I will take more precautions now.

 

[Scott.h]

Man, those look awful close to the ones I have. I wonder if they are the same? I've touched mine though and never had an issue. I have two different kinds that are slightly different color, other ones in my home tank, but they look the same in shape. If that's the case I would want to get them out I have two different kinds that are slightly different color but they look the same. If that's the case I would want to get them out

 

[Rick.45cal]

Somewhere on youtube, and posted in a thread here on Reef2Reef is a video of Julian Sprung discussing Palytoxin. In it he describes his exposure and symptoms of his poisoning. He had a severe headache and couldn't sleep all night long. It is worth finding to watch, I would also do my best to attempt to contact Julian Sprung directly and discuss any possible long term effects that he may or may not have from his encounter. His encounter most likely was via skin absorption like yours sounds like it was.

I would definitely track down anyone and everyone who is involved in Palytoxin research and try and pick their brains about your mysterious long term ailments that you have been suffering. Obviously you need to include your doctor in all of this, but my guess is there are very few people that will have the knowledge to be able to make a diagnosis.

I wish you the best of luck, and will personally try and find the video for you. I have the very same big green palys, I didn't want them, they came as an invader on some Goochester zoas, they live on a tiny little frag island isolated in the sand. I won't lie, I've thought many times of getting rid of them. I DO NOT handle them, at all. Not just for my safety, but also because there is potential they can nuke the tank too. They have always been suspect to me, this thread furthers my suspicions.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

How are you feeling today? Hope you're doing well!

 

[Sistawolf]

Let us know what the dr said.. we are worried for you

 

[jnj97]

Unfortunately the doctors office called and changed the appt (she had to cancel bc of a emergency)

 

[Scott.h]

So how do you know which kinds are toxic and to what extent?

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have gotten toxins twice before and it is miserable. I was lucky to only have blurred vision and pain for 2 weeks. I have similar ones in my tank and I pick them like weeds, but with gloves and eye protection. I also have a large enough system that when I pluck them, I do it in tank, so less issues to me.

Please let us know how you are doing.

 

[jnj97]

@Rick. 45. Thank you I just watched the video

 

[jnj97]

I have gotten toxins twice before and it is miserable. I was lucky to only have blurred vision and pain for 2 weeks. I have similar ones in my tank and I pick them like weeds, but with gloves and eye protection. I also have a large enough system that when I pluck them, I do it in tank, so less issues to me.

Please let us know how you are doing.

This pain gas been going on for a about a year off and on.

 

[DeniseAndy]

Sounds like something else, but could be prolonged exposure. I am not a doctor. I hope you find out something that will help you get better.

 

[Vincent100]

Should I be worried about any of these 2

 

[Reefapprentice]

Both of those pictures do contain palytoxin. I have the same ones on the left in my tanks.

 

[Scott.h]

Those look a lot like mine too. The 3 biggest base rocks in one of my tanks are covered with them. Up until now I was pretty proud at how they've spread. I've heard of toxins, but never took it seriously. if you look just to the left, hanging there, my spreading Xenia die off when they get close to them. That would explain it. I want the rocks but I want them off. I guess boiling the rock is out of the question..

 

[DeniseAndy]

If you need to get rid of them, let them sun dry, then acid wash outside with all proper gear.