Help - Battling Nitrates for 6 months.

[johnbr]

Hi guys,

The title is actually pretty straight forward. I have a red sea 525 XL and I have been battling nitrates in my tank but no success. I'm not gonna lie that I've learn a lot over the past few months on how to properly feed a tank and changed significantly my feeding methods. However not even after that I seem to shoot right. My tank recently went through an ich breakout and I removed everything from the tank. My tank has been fallow since NOV-15th. I did a HUGE water change and since then I wasn't even feeding the tank, just a few small pieces of mysis 2x/week.

I still keep my weekly 10% WC religiously but for some reason I still have 30-40 nitrates. I never dosed NoPox or any other form of carbon (Vodka, Vinegar). I do have a dosing pump with 4 channels that I could easily setup one for carbon dosing. I spoke with my guys at WWC (world Wide Corals) and they said that vinegar or vodka is something they stay away since there's no way to calculate how much you need daily.

My other parameters are pretty spot on (Ca, Mg, Alk). I want to start buying some acros and people say that this guys are pretty picky when it comes to high nutrient environments.

Can you guys please shoot me some light on how to battle nitrates. I don't the eradicate from my system just control it.

Thanks a lot

 

[RobZilla04]

This shouldn't be too difficult for folks to help you with. First off, do you have a skimmer? Also what is the tank stocked with and how much live rock, brick media, bio balls, etc? I ask because those are all surface areas for bacteria to grow on and populate which will in turn consume excess nutrients from feeding and fish waste.

If the tank is still within the first year or so, chances are the bacteria population is still diversifying thus there could be growth followed by a significant die off which can cause manageable spikes. Filtration and husbandry come into play. More than simply water changes. What about filter sock replacement or media pad changes? Are those being done, and do you even have them in place?

NoPox, vinegar, vodka, or a combination of V&V can assist by providing a source of organic carbon for bacteria to utilize as a food source. They populate and consume the excess nitrate & some phosphate. In turn the majority will get removed through filtration, water changes, skimming, etc. This is an easy way to control Nitrates and some Phosphates for folks who feed heavy or are striving for a low nutrient system. Folks start off with a low amount and work up over the course of weeks/months testing along the way. Once there is a significant drop, they cut back the dose to a maintenance level. I for one dose the DIY version of NoPox (Vinegar, Vodka, and RODI). There is no doubt that I am under dosing what my tank could handle, but nitrates stay between 5 and 15. All of my coral seem happy, colorful, and grow. So why change a good thing.

Keep it simple. Research and stay patient. Happy Reefing.

 

[dwest]

Hi guys,

The title is actually pretty straight forward. I have a red sea 525 XL and I have been battling nitrates in my tank but no success. I'm not gonna lie that I've learn a lot over the past few months on how to properly feed a tank and changed significantly my feeding methods. However not even after that I seem to shoot right. My tank recently went through an ich breakout and I removed everything from the tank. My tank has been fallow since NOV-15th. I did a HUGE water change and since then I wasn't even feeding the tank, just a few small pieces of mysis 2x/week.

I still keep my weekly 10% WC religiously but for some reason I still have 30-40 nitrates. I never dosed NoPox or any other form of carbon (Vodka, Vinegar). I do have a dosing pump with 4 channels that I could easily setup one for carbon dosing. I spoke with my guys at WWC (world Wide Corals) and they said that vinegar or vodka is something they stay away since there's no way to calculate how much you need daily.

My other parameters are pretty spot on (Ca, Mg, Alk). I want to start buying some acros and people say that this guys are pretty picky when it comes to high nutrient environments.

Can you guys please shoot me some light on how to battle nitrates. I don't the eradicate from my system just control it.

Thanks a lot

Make sure you have measurable phosphates. If you have both high phosphates and nitrates, I would use a chaeto fuge. Also 30-40 ppm nitrates although a little high, might not be a problem. Is it causing any harm in the tank?

 

[johnbr]

This shouldn't be too difficult for folks to help you with. First off, do you have a skimmer? Also what is the tank stocked with and how much live rock, brick media, bio balls, etc? I ask because those are all surface areas for bacteria to grow on and populate which will in turn consume excess nutrients from feeding and fish waste.

If the tank is still within the first year or so, chances are the bacteria population is still diversifying thus there could be growth followed by a significant die off which can cause manageable spikes. Filtration and husbandry come into play. More than simply water changes. What about filter sock replacement or media pad changes? Are those being done, and do you even have them in place?

NoPox, vinegar, vodka, or a combination of V&V can assist by providing a source of organic carbon for bacteria to utilize as a food source. They populate and consume the excess nitrate & some phosphate. In turn the majority will get removed through filtration, water changes, skimming, etc. This is an easy way to control Nitrates and some Phosphates for folks who feed heavy or are striving for a low nutrient system. Folks start off with a low amount and work up over the course of weeks/months testing along the way. Once there is a significant drop, they cut back the dose to a maintenance level. I for one dose the DIY version of NoPox (Vinegar, Vodka, and RODI). There is no doubt that I am under dosing what my tank could handle, but nitrates stay between 5 and 15. All of my coral seem happy, colorful, and grow. So why change a good thing.

Keep it simple. Research and stay patient. Happy Reefing.

Hey @RobZilla04

Thanks for stopping by. I'm sorry I didn't mention the skimmer part. I do have a Bubble Magus D8 and plenty of rock. Also, I have 2 brightwell media bricks that I was using since my last tank. Before the ich and velvet I had around 22 fish, most small species but so far only my blue tank came to my tank. The tank is 7 months old. I'm super picky about everything in my tank and I'm was fortunate enough to spend hours close to it since I work from home. I swap my filter floss every 2 days, clean the skimmer cup 1x every 2 week and perform 10% WC every Friday. The RODI unit that I use is a 7 stage with 2 sedminet, 2 membranes, 2 carbon blasters and 3 canister of DI (CATION, ANION and MIXED BED). I'm super careful when it comes to water source.

I just need more info on what would be the safest easiest way to drop my NO3 to like 10 at max. Also, my Phosphates PO4 range around 0.01-0.03.

Make sure you have measurable phosphates. If you have both high phosphates and nitrates, I would use a chaeto fuge. Also 30-40 ppm nitrates although a little high, might not be a problem. Is it causing any harm in the tank?

Hey @dwest,

PO4 is totally controllable. Only nitrates are high.

 

[Justin Cook]

I was in a similar situation and started dosing a low dose of NOPOX. (I don't like having vodka around the house or I would have tried that.). My nitrates went from 12-15 on average to 2-5 in about 3 months. I'm sure I could have done it faster by upping the dose or doing better calculations but I kept the dose small and let time do its thing. 2ml daily for a 80g system.

 

[johnbr]

I was in a similar situation and started dosing a low dose of NOPOX. (I don't like having vodka around the house or I would have tried that.). My nitrates went from 12-15 on average to 2-5 in about 3 months. I'm sure I could have done it faster by upping the dose or doing better calculations but I kept the dose small and let time do its thing. 2ml daily for a 80g system.

Hey @Justin Cook

Thanks for sharing your experience brother. The only reason I'm afraid of NoPox is because people say that if you have low PO4 and high NO3 is going to low both and ended up stripping out the PO4 bringing it to ZERO, what I wanted to avoid.

I also forgot to mention that I have a mainfold with 2 Aquamaxx Reactors for any ideias like, medias, carbon, GFO.

 

[JDowns]

It's odd that your nitrates are that high. I have the same tank and pretty much the same routine except that I do 20% water changes once a week. I completely got rid of GFO and any carbon dosing (will be going fuge in the near future). Biggest difference is I have 21 fish that get 6-8 cubes of food daily and my nitrates never get above 15. I do dose a mixture of bacteria weekly though.

I wonder if it's the bricks from the previous system leaching nitrate? You could test by putting a brick in a bucket of RO for awhile and then test that water. If it's leaching then you should be able to detect it.

Also have you tested your RO water.

 

[johnbr]

It's odd that your nitrates are that high. I have the same tank and pretty much the same routine except that I do 20% water changes once a week. I completely got rid of GFO and any carbon dosing (will be going fuge in the near future). Biggest difference is I have 21 fish that get 6-8 cubes of food daily and my nitrates never get above 15. I do dose a mixture of bacteria weekly though.

I wonder if it's the bricks from the previous system leaching nitrate? You could test by putting a brick in a bucket of RO for awhile and then test that water. If it's leaching then you should be able to detect it.

Also have you tested your RO water.

I spoke once with one of the guys ate Seachem regarding their Matrix inside a reactor with low flow dosing bacteria weekly. They said would a good ideia. The only downside having matrix in a reactor is trapping a lot of detritus.

The brick ideia might be a good one since my previous tank was also a high nitrate system and the brick is around a year old. My RO water is pristine.

I'm gonna try removing both bricks and test. How long should I leave in RO/DI though?

Thanks

 

[Justin Cook]

The phosphates were a minor concern of mine so I stopped rinsing the frozen food I feed and haven't noticed any issues. Please note: I'm not the most "exacting" reefer around. My tank parameters have some wide tolerances and things still look good after 8 yrs.

 

[JDowns]

I would think a few hours or so with a small powerhead should do the trick. If it is leaching then you should detect some level of nitrates....the longer the soak the more nitrates.

I did pretty much the same thing that Seachem recommended to you. I converted my old pellet reactor to house marine pure media since I had the space. I keep the pump on low, its too early to determine the amount of detritus. But I replace my filter pads every two days and my sump stays pretty darn clean, so it should be too much of a problem.

 

[JDowns]

Also instead of RO water if you have a fresh batch of salt water that may be preferable so you don't kill off the bacteria in the rock. Just measure your salt water first to make sure no nitrates.

 

[JDowns]

 

[RobZilla04]

Is this bare bottom or sand bed? How is the algae growth?

Deeper sand beds can trap nutrient which will be released when stirred up. Regular vacuuming can assist with removal of detritus and gasses, but the trade off is loss of beneficial bacteria as they are stripped from the substrate and others are buried into a low O2 environment. Algae growth, chaeto, refugiums, etc can all result in low Po4 while Nitrates remain elevated above comfort levels.

Another option is to check the flow to and around any sump media such as the bricks or rock work. If flow is too slow or non existent, nutrients may not be making it to those areas for the bacteria to consume. This can result in additional bacteria die off, and higher nitrates from the cycle of death.

 

[JBKReef]

Just to rule out some easy stuff...

What is your source water? RO/DI? LFS?

How old is your test kit?

When the die off happened from Ich/Velvet were any animals missed or could be decaying in the tank?

 

[esolo16]

What nitrate test are you using?

 

[johnbr]

Is this bare bottom or sand bed? How is the algae growth?

Deeper sand beds can trap nutrient which will be released when stirred up. Regular vacuuming can assist with removal of detritus and gasses, but the trade off is loss of beneficial bacteria as they are stripped from the substrate and others are buried into a low O2 environment. Algae growth, chaeto, refugiums, etc can all result in low Po4 while Nitrates remain elevated above comfort levels.

Another option is to check the flow to and around any sump media such as the bricks or rock work. If flow is too slow or non existent, nutrients may not be making it to those areas for the bacteria to consume. This can result in additional bacteria die off, and higher nitrates from the cycle of death.

I have sand. I also have plenty of nassarus snails and a sand sifting star fish. My sandbed is crystal clear and no algae whatsoever. Chaeto simply can not grown in my system (tried several times).

Flow in the display would not be an issue since 4 MP 40's in a red sea 525xl should be plenty if not overkill. I was thinking maybe putting a powerhead in the sump.

In regards to lowering NO3. What's the best way to get rid of NO3 in this case?

Thanks

 

[johnbr]

What nitrate test are you using?

Saliferf, RedSea Pro Kit

 

[RobZilla04]

I have sand. I also have plenty of nassarus snails and a sand sifting star fish. My sandbed is crystal clear and no algae whatsoever. Chaeto simply can not grown in my system (tried several times).

Flow in the display would not be an issue since 4 MP 40's in a red sea 525xl should be plenty if not overkill. I was thinking maybe putting a powerhead in the sump.

In regards to lowering NO3. What's the best way to get rid of NO3 in this case?

Thanks

Everything looks good as far as I can tell. It doesn't hurt to experiment slowly with NoPox, Vodka, Vinegar, or the DIY version of VV&RODI. Already mentioned above was a dose regiment for an 80g system. My 90g plus sump is being dosed less than 20ml of the DIY NoPox daily. I don't have the exact ml since I'm away from the house currently.

Chaeto not growing would be a direct result of low Po4 I'd say.

 

[johnbr]

Everything looks good as far as I can tell. It doesn't hurt to experiment slowly with NoPox, Vodka, Vinegar, or the DIY version of VV&RODI. Already mentioned above was a dose regiment for an 80g system. My 90g plus sump is being dosed less than 20ml of the DIY NoPox daily. I don't have the exact ml since I'm away from the house currently.

Chaeto not growing would be a direct result of low Po4 I'd say.

Yes my system has really low PO4.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi guys,

The title is actually pretty straight forward. I have a red sea 525 XL and I have been battling nitrates in my tank but no success. I'm not gonna lie that I've learn a lot over the past few months on how to properly feed a tank and changed significantly my feeding methods. However not even after that I seem to shoot right. My tank recently went through an ich breakout and I removed everything from the tank. My tank has been fallow since NOV-15th. I did a HUGE water change and since then I wasn't even feeding the tank, just a few small pieces of mysis 2x/week.

I still keep my weekly 10% WC religiously but for some reason I still have 30-40 nitrates. I never dosed NoPox or any other form of carbon (Vodka, Vinegar). I do have a dosing pump with 4 channels that I could easily setup one for carbon dosing. I spoke with my guys at WWC (world Wide Corals) and they said that vinegar or vodka is something they stay away since there's no way to calculate how much you need daily.

My other parameters are pretty spot on (Ca, Mg, Alk). I want to start buying some acros and people say that this guys are pretty picky when it comes to high nutrient environments.

Can you guys please shoot me some light on how to battle nitrates. I don't the eradicate from my system just control it.

Thanks a lot

Well, correct, you cannot calculate it, but it is very easy by trial and error, slowly raising or lowering the amount dosed, and IME, the exact amount is not critical anyway since you do not need an exact nitrate or phosphate level.

Regardless, organic dosing is just one of many way to export nutrients, and it seems like you need to use something. Growing macroalgae, algae scrubber, denitrator, etc.

This has some discussion of many options:


Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium