Help - Battling Nitrates for 6 months.

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Yes my system has really low PO4.

How low? Below 0.01 ppm? If so, it is likely limiting algae growth. You might consider dosing some phosphate if you want algae uptake to lower nitrate.

 

[johnbr]

How low? Below 0.01 ppm? If so, it is likely limiting algae growth. You might consider dosing some phosphate if you want algae uptake to lower nitrate.

Hey Randy,

Yes something around that. No higher than 0.04. I don't have a refugium area so would be possible dose something to lower NO3 instead of dosing PO4?

Thanks

 

[johnbr]

Well, correct, you cannot calculate it, but it is very easy by trial and error, slowly raising or lowering the amount dosed, and IME, the exact amount is not critical anyway since you do not need an exact nitrate or phosphate level.

Regardless, organic dosing is just one of many way to export nutrients, and it seems like you need to use something. Growing macroalgae, algae scrubber, denitrator, etc.

This has some discussion of many options:


Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION
https://www.reef2reef.com/blog/nitrate-in-the-reef-aquarium

Unfortunately Algae is something that does not work for me. Since I have the gear at my disposal. Do you you think I should try vinegar or vodka? I'm afraid to run nopox and strip the only po4 that I have left in the tank.

 

[RobZilla04]

Unfortunately Algae is something that does not work for me. Since I have the gear at my disposal. Do you you think I should try vinegar or vodka? I'm afraid to run nopox and strip the only po4 that I have left in the tank.

As long as you have fish in the tank and continue to feed, you cannot strip ALL of the phosphate from the tank. NoPox, Vinegar, Vodka, & the DIY solution will have a much greater impact on Nitrates by feeding the bacterial population growth which consume them.

If testing Phosphate via the Hanna Phosphorus ULR, keep in mind the margin of error (+/- 5 ppb & +/- 5% of the reading).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hey Randy,

Yes something around that. No higher than 0.04. I don't have a refugium area so would be possible dose something to lower NO3 instead of dosing PO4?

Thanks

0.02 to 0.03 ppm is plenty. You do not need more. Most kits aren't suitable for knowing if it is too low, but the Hanna phosphorus checker can be.

That said, dosing a little (say, 0.02 ppm a day for a few days) is not going to be a big issue even if you already have 0.02 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Unfortunately Algae is something that does not work for me. Since I have the gear at my disposal. Do you you think I should try vinegar or vodka? I'm afraid to run nopox and strip the only po4 that I have left in the tank.

Why does it not work? In other words, what happens?

Organic carbon dosing does not generally remove phosphate as well as nitrate, but with any method like this (algae, organic dosing, etc.) you may need to add phosphate to balance out the nitrate uptake.

 

[Coralreefer1]

How deep is your sandbed? I employ a deep sandbed approach with all my tanks and my nitrates are always very low.

 

[johnbr]

As long as you have fish in the tank and continue to feed, you cannot strip ALL of the phosphate from the tank. NoPox, Vinegar, Vodka, & the DIY solution will have a much greater impact on Nitrates by feeding the bacterial population growth which consume them.

If testing Phosphate via the Hanna Phosphorus ULR, keep in mind the margin of error (+/- 5 ppb & +/- 5% of the reading).

I understand that.

0.02 to 0.03 ppm is plenty. You do not need more. Most kits aren't suitable for knowing if it is too low, but the Hanna phosphorus checker can be.

That said, dosing a little (say, 0.02 ppm a day for a few days) is not going to be a big issue even if you already have 0.02 ppm.

Why does it not work? In other words, what happens?

Organic carbon dosing does not generally remove phosphate as well as nitrate, but with any method like this (algae, organic dosing, etc.) you may need to add phosphate to balance out the nitrate uptake.

I don't know. But I've already tried many times. Chaeto simply doesn't grow in my sump. I don't want to try again and spend to get a light, another outlet to use. I rather keep my PO4 where it is instead of dosing phosphates to grow algae specially when I don't have space for it in my sump.

So pretty much dose either vinegar or carbon and that's it?

 

[mta_morrow]

This shouldn't be too difficult for folks to help you with. First off, do you have a skimmer? Also what is the tank stocked with and how much live rock, brick media, bio balls, etc? I ask because those are all surface areas for bacteria to grow on and populate which will in turn consume excess nutrients from feeding and fish waste.

If the tank is still within the first year or so, chances are the bacteria population is still diversifying thus there could be growth followed by a significant die off which can cause manageable spikes. Filtration and husbandry come into play. More than simply water changes. What about filter sock replacement or media pad changes? Are those being done, and do you even have them in place?

NoPox, vinegar, vodka, or a combination of V&V can assist by providing a source of organic carbon for bacteria to utilize as a food source. They populate and consume the excess nitrate & some phosphate. In turn the majority will get removed through filtration, water changes, skimming, etc. This is an easy way to control Nitrates and some Phosphates for folks who feed heavy or are striving for a low nutrient system. Folks start off with a low amount and work up over the course of weeks/months testing along the way. Once there is a significant drop, they cut back the dose to a maintenance level. I for one dose the DIY version of NoPox (Vinegar, Vodka, and RODI). There is no doubt that I am under dosing what my tank could handle, but nitrates stay between 5 and 15. All of my coral seem happy, colorful, and grow. So why change a good thing.

Keep it simple. Research and stay patient. Happy Reefing.

I have a RSR 525xl as well. Up for 10 months.

I dose 12 ml of homemade nopox daily (same recipe)and am now up to 6 liters of Seachem matrix and denitrate in the sump.

I run 12-16 on nitrates consistently for months.

23 fish (smaller ones) and feed a lot.

 

[johnbr]

I have a RSR 525xl as well. Up for 10 months.

I dose 12 ml of homemade nopox daily (same recipe)and am now up to 6 liters of Seachem matrix and denitrate in the sump.

I run 12-16 on nitrates consistently for months.

23 fish (smaller ones) and feed a lot.

" denitrate "

is that a product?

 

[mta_morrow]

" denitrate "

is that a product?

Yes. Seachem matrix and Seachem denitrate are like small rocks. Place it in a very low flow area of your sump and it does a good job as a place for bacteria to grow including denitrify bacteria.

It will help maintain lower nitrate levels once they get below 20 I believe.

You can read up on their website.

I keep 3 liters in each of these baskets in the rear of the center sump compartment.

I have a few extra rocks on top but you can see what I mean:

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

So pretty much dose either vinegar or carbon and that's it?

Those words do not make literal sense, but dosing organic carbon means dosing something like vinegar, vodka, or other organics.

BUT, you may need to dose phosphate whether you use organic dosing or algae growth. Both use some phosphate and may become (or already be) phosphate limited.

 

[esolo16]

I do not dose any organic carbon now. But when I did, the effects on phosphates were minimal.

However, I think you may also want to try and identify why your nitrates are so high to begin with because your filtration and maintenance seem robust enough to handle your feeding. It could very well be your old bricks and they will eventually stop releasing nitrates. Do you have any detritus building up anywhere?

 

[Hamza Hamid]

Try vodka dosing with good skimmer does help alot.

 

[ckalupa]

If you don’t want to dose something try a Aquavitro purfiltrum bag. Pretty effective at removing some nitrates. And it can be renewed with Bleach.

Phosnet bags work for Phos. It’s synthetic gfo but no reactor needed.

 

[Ruben Sacramento]

I keep my nitrates in check on my RSM 130 with 500ml denitrate and 1l pond matrix. In your case I would at least double that and dose bacteria in the first 3 to 4 weeks. I used Aquaforest Pro Bio F

 

[johnbr]

Try vodka dosing with good skimmer does help alot.

Thanks for replying . I might try that.

If you don’t want to dose something try a Aquavitro purfiltrum bag. Pretty effective at removing some nitrates. And it can be renewed with Bleach.

Phosnet bags work for Phos. It’s synthetic gfo but no reactor needed.

Since I do have 2 reactors attached to my mainfold and the vectra is pretty powerful I would to take advantage of that.

Also I can control the flow on both reactors independently

I keep my nitrates in check on my RSM 130 with 500ml denitrate and 1l pond matrix. In your case I would at least double that and dose bacteria in the first 3 to 4 weeks. I used Aquaforest Pro Bio F

So should I put them in the sump? Like two baskets one with pond and one with denitrate? High or Low (asking cuz I was thinking putting a powerhead down in the sump?

In regards to the bacteria I have 2 liters of Brightwell Macrobacter7. Can I use that instead?

 

[johnbr]

Also,

I mentioned before that I have 2 brightwell media bricks that a brought from my old tank. Someone mentioned that I could be leaking nitrate into the system.

Once I start the new media, should I remove the old bricks in order to remove this possibility of leaking?

and last... Is the bacteria that we dose to remove nitrate the same one we use to start a new tank?

Nitrifying Bacteria

Thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

If you don’t want to dose something try a Aquavitro purfiltrum bag. Pretty effective at removing some nitrates. And it can be renewed with Bleach.

Phosnet bags work for Phos. It’s synthetic gfo but no reactor needed.

Just to clarify, purfiltrum does not bind nitrate from seawater. it binds organic material, and that may prevent the organics from breaking down into nitrate and phosphate. In that sense, it is a similar product to Purigen and GAC.

I don;'t think there are any products on the market that can bind significant nitrate from seawater.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Also,

I mentioned before that I have 2 brightwell media bricks that a brought from my old tank. Someone mentioned that I could be leaking nitrate into the system.

Once I start the new media, should I remove the old bricks in order to remove this possibility of leaking?

and last... Is the bacteria that we dose to remove nitrate the same one we use to start a new tank?

Nitrifying Bacteria

Thanks

I don't see that as a likely possibility. It would mean they are contaminated with so much degrading organic matter that they are a net source of N and P (like a pile of detritus might be).

There is not a supply of nitrate in them "waiting" to come out.

Nitrifying bacteria and denitrifying bacteria are different species,. Whether they may both be in one additive depends on how they are made.