Help - blue hep tang looks sick again

[Gmj4409]

I've been treating all my fish for approx. 42 days in hospital tank. The blue started it with what I thought may be velvet but certainly ich. I started with formalin tank dose, then cupramine/seachem test kit at .5 for 33 days. Followed copper with wc, carbon and the another formalin tank dose. Just did 4 day prazipro tank dose, wc and now 2 days into second prazipro dose. He looks rough again!
He has done occasional flash as of this morning. All other fish look good. I'm at a loss. I must of made a mistake somewhere? Please take a look at pics - he never stops moving she o tough to get a good still shot.
Thanks in advance!

 

[GHsaltie]

Am I right in saying that it looks like he has a "film"? Have you noticed any heavy breathing? It kind of looks like Brook to me.
@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12

 

[Gmj4409]

Am I right in saying that it looks like he has a "film"? Have you noticed any heavy breathing? It kind of looks like Brook to me.
@Humblefish @melypr1985 @Brew12

Yes -at times in certain light and angles.almost like a pigment thing.

 

[Gmj4409]

Yes -at times in certain light and angles.almost like a pigment thing.

No heavy breathing and still eating

 

[JamesP]

I was reading the method that humblefish uses and he recommends a freshwater dip and chemical bath as well. I have a formalin based product on hand I was considering but I am yet to actually perform such bath. It sounds like it can be dangerous if not done correctly.

 

[Gmj4409]

That's one thing I haven't done. Probably need to incorporate moving forward. I'm definitely at a loss now. I'm assuming I'm going to have to start copper again but am waiting for direction. Thanks

 

[Brew12]

Are you sure you maintained a therapeutic level of copper the entire time?

It looks like you have treated for everything possible. What size QT is it? I'm wondering if he is just showing signs of stress from the QT process. @4FordFamily Thoughts?

btw... my Hippo flashes on occasion but I have never seen any other symptoms of either Ich or Flukes and I follow very tight QT protocols. He just seems to like doing it to make me nervous.

You could do a fresh water dip to check for flukes but I wouldn't do more than that right now.

 

[JamesP]

Im in the same boat. Ive done copper and prazi on all fish and fallowed all inverts. Im going to pull all the fish out and do a freshwater dip, chemical bath, and metro+furin+kana for 10 days and put them back. Im assuming I dont have to redo copper and prazi. Thats the real pain if I need to redo. @Humblefish What are your thoughts on this?

I have a visible bacteria infection on my purple tang. Looks like little white hairs on his tail.

 

[Humblefish]

I think this fish's problem may actually be all the different meds he has been subjected to - especially the formalin. So, I personally would do a large WC and run carbon to remove all the meds.

If he's still looking "brook like" after that, I would perform a 5 min FW dip + 90 min acriflavine bath and then transfer him into a clean/sterile QT. Acriflavine is a lot safer/gentler than using formalin.

 

[Gmj4409]

Thank you. I will do that immediately.

 

[Leadfooted]

I've found my Blue Hippo experienced similar issues until I stabilized my PH. When my PH had dramatic swings it stressed and had similar look to yours. Ever since I stabilized my PH my Blue Hippo has been fine.

 

[Humblefish]

I've found my Blue Hippo experienced similar issues until I stabilized my PH. When my PH had dramatic swings it stressed and had similar look to yours. Ever since I stabilized my PH my Blue Hippo has been fine.

Good idea to check all water parameters, especially ammonia & pH.

 

[JamesP]

Ive heard that mixing formalin with malachite green makes the formalin not as harsh and also is able to fight more diseases at the same time. Is this something people still do? I have a new bottle of the stuff and that was my plan for a few weeks out when I have the time.

 

[Humblefish]

Ive heard that mixing formalin with malachite green makes the formalin not as harsh and also is able to fight more diseases at the same time. Is this something people still do? I have a new bottle of the stuff and that was my plan for a few weeks out when I have the time.

Both are carcinogens, so from my way of thinking it's just a double dose of potential fish cancer.

 

[JamesP]

I do consider my fish pets and I guess I wouldnt give my dog a formaldehyde flea dip so I see your point. I may just toss them both out and try and get some acriflavine. I just dont know how to easily obtain the stuff. Thats why I have formalin/malachite on hand, its so readily available. Where are folks sourcing their acriflavine from? Is there an online source or is it from a local vet that you have to be buddies with?

 

[melypr1985]

I do consider my fish pets and I guess I wouldnt give my dog a formaldehyde flea dip so I see your point. I may just toss them both out and try and get some acriflavine. I just dont know how to easily obtain the stuff. Thats why I have formalin/malachite on hand, its so readily available. Where are folks sourcing their acriflavine from? Is there an online source or is it from a local vet that you have to be buddies with?

Ruby Reef Rally is pretty easy to get and contains acriflavin. There is also acriflavin ms that you should be able to find online.

 

[Humblefish]

I do consider my fish pets and I guess I wouldnt give my dog a formaldehyde flea dip so I see your point. I may just toss them both out and try and get some acriflavine. I just dont know how to easily obtain the stuff. Thats why I have formalin/malachite on hand, its so readily available. Where are folks sourcing their acriflavine from? Is there an online source or is it from a local vet that you have to be buddies with?

Don't throw away your bottle of formalin. As much as I advocate using acriflavine, formalin is still more effective at clearing brook and prazi resistant strains of flukes & black ich.

 

[JamesP]

So after the initial acriflavine dip, I guess you would keep the fish in observation and if it still is having issues then it would be time to pull out the formalin as a last resort. I didnt know then what I know now so i just put all my fish in the dt for the first couple years. Now i pulled out all corals and fallowed while running ionic copper and prazi in dt. Ich and aiptasia are gone from copper. Ive since cleaned it up and scrubbed the rocks and have had zero copper for a couple months. Corals are about to go back in dt.

Im going to catch the fish next and run them through the missing steps of methylene blue, acriflavine, and then furin+metro+kana for 10 days. I know its kinda out of order, but hopefully I can have a high degree of confidence I have cleaned the system. From this point, any new additions will follow your quarantine process ive read up on in the right order. Im just trying to do it retroactively the best i can. Did I miss anything important? Should I also put the existing fish in fw dip after I catch them?

 

[4FordFamily]

I think this fish's problem may actually be all the different meds he has been subjected to - especially the formalin. So, I personally would do a large WC and run carbon to remove all the meds.

If he's still looking "brook like" after that, I would perform a 5 min FW dip + 90 min acriflavine bath and then transfer him into a clean/sterile QT. Acriflavine is a lot safer/gentler than using formalin.

Agree I cannot tell anything from the photos - perhaps the mix of meds has weakened the fish's slime coat leading to that appearance. Hang in there and I agree with Humble here

 

[Humblefish]

@JamesP If all your fish are looking healthy following copper + prazi in the DT, I wouldn't medicate any further. Parasites (ich, velvet) and flukes are the only "hidden diseases" we typically face, so those are the ones I prophylactically treat for. Bacterial infections usually show themselves on a fish (red sores, white patches), and even intestinal worms cause white stringy poop to manifest. So, I wouldn't use antibiotics, methylene blue, acriflavine, etc. unless warranted.