Help Clogged Overflow

Neo Jeo · May 10, 2019

So last night I was woken up at 4am saying the tank is making a loud noise...

In my head it's pure panic..

I run downstairs to find my return section low and my pump sucking in air. Then to look at the tank and that water is right to the TOP.....Thankfully it did not overflow.

My ATO system ran and ran until the auto timer shut it off, I think its like 5min?. Thanks Tunze. I think I want to lower that even more to Nano selection in the control board.

I have a single overflow corner. I use a gate valve to cut back on noise. I opened the gate value and the water went a flowing again. I assume something was stuck in the gate. I dont know for sure. This made my return section go very low turning on my ATO.

Can some one PLEASE help me figure a way to create redundancy. I have a Eshopp R-200 sump and a marine land overflow. Tunze ATO and a Reef Octopus return pump. I do have a float valve that will shut the pump off but I dont know the best place to put it. If I put it in the return section and this happens again I just see the pump shutting off, the water returning back up then the pump turning back on the water going low and my ATO will keep going on and off and the timer will never have time to cut it off. The tank then will over flow IMO.. I dont know.

My salinity went from 1.026 to 1.024-25ish... I have fans on the tank to help with evaporation.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond in advance!

Sailingeric · May 10, 2019

I have a pump with a float value shut off and I have it in sump where it wont take much of a drop in water level to shut it off. The off and on again of your pump if you get a clog is much better than flooding your floor plus you will notice it. Did you find out what clogged your line? Snail or fish??

f8th · May 10, 2019

Would you consider redoing your plumbing a bit? Use both holes in the overflow for drains - one that's full siphon with the gate valve, and one emergency. Then run your return line up over the side of the tank.

Neo Jeo · May 10, 2019

Sailingeric said:
I have a pump with a float value shut off and I have it in sump where it wont take much of a drop in water level to shut it off. The off and on again of your pump if you get a clog is much better than flooding your floor plus you will notice it. Did you find out what clogged your line? Snail or fish??

If I put the float switch for my return pump in my return section then when the water gets low enough it will first turn on my ATO. Then once is gets lower it will turn my pump off.

I for see the ATO turn on, pump turns off, water flows back up, pump turns on, overflow still clogged , then water level drops again in return section, ato turns back on then pump float switch turns pump off and the cycle repeats. This will not allow the auto top off system auto shutoff timer kick in. Once the auto top off system runs for X amount of time it shuts off and will not operate until you unplug and plug the unit back in . It’s a nice feature

Neo Jeo · May 10, 2019

f8th said:
Would you consider redoing your plumbing a bit? Use both holes in the overflow for drains - one that's full siphon with the gate valve, and one emergency. Then run your return line up over the side of the tank.

I have not thought of it. This tank will be here for another few years before I move so if you have advice and time how to explain that to me I would appreciate it . I like the fact of having an emergency line the only thing is the tank is half of an inch away from the wall

Montiman · May 10, 2019

The easy solution would be something like a smart level security to shut off the pump. The better solution would be a re-plumb with 2 drains.

Montiman · May 10, 2019

Neo Jeo said:
If I put the float switch for my return pump in my return section then when the water gets low enough it will first turn on my ATO. Then once is gets lower it will turn my pump off.

I for see the ATO turn on, pump turns off, water flows back up, pump turns on, overflow still clogged , then water level drops again in return section, ato turns back on then pump float switch turns pump off and the cycle repeats. This will not allow the auto top off system auto shutoff timer kick in. Once the auto top off system runs for X amount of time it shuts off and will not operate until you unplug and plug the unit back in . It’s a nice feature

With something like a smart level security it will alarm when triggered and not restart your return pump. This is what I would use.

Water Dog · May 10, 2019

Quite frankly, I would never restrict via a gate valve a single durso style drain set up. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. Valve restriction in a primary drain line is reserved for Herbie or Beananimal style set ups where there are secondary and/or tertiary emergency drains should a clog in the primary occur.

Is the noise of your drain system when run wide open (as it’s designed to run) from the corner overflow or the where water enters the sump? For safety’s sake, I think these are the areas we should try to solve in terms of noise reduction so that the overflow/drain system on your tank can run the way it was designed to, in order to avoid a future disaster.

Neo Jeo · May 10, 2019

Water Dog said:
Quite frankly, I would never restrict via a gate valve a single durso style drain set up. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. Valve restriction in a primary drain line is reserved for Herbie or Beananimal style set ups where there are secondary and/or tertiary emergency drains should a clog in the primary occur.

Is the noise of your drain system when run wide open (as it’s designed to run) from the corner overflow or the where water enters the sump? For safety’s sake, I think these are the areas we should try to solve in terms of noise reduction so that the overflow/drain system on your tank can run the way it was designed to, in order to avoid a future disaster.

The noise is mostly down at the bottom. I don’t mind I guess. I can keep the gate open 100%. The only thing with the gate open the over flow goes up and down. It’s like a surge of waster flows down. Now the water is coming up threw the black bulk head area at the bottom from splashing I assume.

I think I’m going to shut it a little?

Neo Jeo · May 10, 2019

Water Dog said:
Quite frankly, I would never restrict via a gate valve a single durso style drain set up. That’s a disaster waiting to happen. Valve restriction in a primary drain line is reserved for Herbie or Beananimal style set ups where there are secondary and/or tertiary emergency drains should a clog in the primary occur.

Is the noise of your drain system when run wide open (as it’s designed to run) from the corner overflow or the where water enters the sump? For safety’s sake, I think these are the areas we should try to solve in terms of noise reduction so that the overflow/drain system on your tank can run the way it was designed to, in order to avoid a future disaster.

The noise is mostly down at the bottom. I don’t mind I guess. I can keep the gate open 100%. The only thing with the gate open the over flow goes up and down. It’s like a surge of waster flows down. Now the water is coming up threw the black bulk head area at the bottom from splashing I assume.

I think I’m going to shut it a little?

Mastiffsrule · May 10, 2019

Evening

As everyone mentioned do not put any flow restrictions on your only drain. I assume you are running a durso in the overflow. I have a dual overflow I used to run durso with. The water level goes up and down in the overflow due to the pipe getting air in it along with water. The air traps the water (level goes up in overflow) until the water overpowers the air (water goes low in overflow) and so called burbs out the end of the drain. Kinda a like a toilet bowl. Pour enough water in and it will flush itself.

There have been some videos that show how to quiet it, but not silent. F8th mentioned redoing the plumbing. That is a good idea. You can run a herbie set up in the overflow and use that second bulkhead in the Eshopps for the emergency drain, and hard plumb a return up the back and over into the tank.

Neo Jeo · May 11, 2019

Mastiffsrule said:
Evening

As everyone mentioned do not put any flow restrictions on your only drain. I assume you are running a durso in the overflow. I have a dual overflow I used to run durso with. The water level goes up and down in the overflow due to the pipe getting air in it along with water. The air traps the water (level goes up in overflow) until the water overpowers the air (water goes low in overflow) and so called burbs out the end of the drain. Kinda a like a toilet bowl. Pour enough water in and it will flush itself.

There have been some videos that show how to quiet it, but not silent. F8th mentioned redoing the plumbing. That is a good idea. You can run a herbie set up in the overflow and use that second bulkhead in the Eshopps for the emergency drain, and hard plumb a return up the back and over into the tank.

Thanks! Do you have a link by any chance to the BRS video?

And that’s exactly what’s happening. The flow goes up and then pours down. When I set up my tank someone helped me with the gate valve and how to create restrictions that will silence my overflow. It works very well but when something gets stuck in the gate valve it can be a disaster. I used to have a screener on my overflow when I had the gate valve closed 50% but the screen got clogged often and I was worried about that as well.

I’ll look into the herbie set up. I don’t have room tho behind my tank. My tank is 1/2” away from the wall.

Mastiffsrule · May 11, 2019

I attached 2 links. The first will show a return line up and over. With the space restrictions you may have to see if there is a way to do the return so it is tucked away. Maybe drain som water from the tank a bit to move it out.

http://gmacreef.com/return-line-plumbing-reef-aquarium-sump/

Next one talks about the durso, and click on the box that shows the herbie set up and it will bring you to how to set up a herbie.

http://gmacreef.com/aquarium-overflows-durso-herbie-and-bean-setups/

Main thing, like you saw with the strainer clogging up is no restrictions that could clog, unless herbie style as it shows in the article.

Another goal to shoot for is to get the water level just right in the DT and th sump. Then mimic a power failure and unplug everything. Keep a close eye. You should have enough room in the sump to handle water drains back from the tank until the siphons are broke, and also enough room in tank if the sump empties it does not overflow

Neo Jeo · May 11, 2019

Mastiffsrule said:
I attached 2 links. The first will show a return line up and over. With the space restrictions you may have to see if there is a way to do the return so it is tucked away. Maybe drain som water from the tank a bit to move it out.

http://gmacreef.com/return-line-plumbing-reef-aquarium-sump/

Next one talks about the durso, and click on the box that shows the herbie set up and it will bring you to how to set up a herbie.

http://gmacreef.com/aquarium-overflows-durso-herbie-and-bean-setups/

Main thing, like you saw with the strainer clogging up is no restrictions that could clog, unless herbie style as it shows in the article.

Another goal to shoot for is to get the water level just right in the DT and th sump. Then mimic a power failure and unplug everything. Keep a close eye. You should have enough room in the sump to handle water drains back from the tank until the siphons are broke, and also enough room in tank if the sump empties it does not overflow

Thanks for that info! Just got done reading it. It seems the first option would be my best. I would have to run a line up and over. I could not nor would I attempt to move my tank. It’s full with rock to the top. The only thing I would have to do it from the side. It could be done but black pipe would be exposed. Then I would do a hurbi it’s called? One drain for syphon and the return line I have now would just be an emergency drain?

Am I understanding that right?

Now, what if I don’t change it. Just straight pipe if like it is now and I’ll just keep getting the fill up and surge back down motion? I would have to seal around the sump better bc the past few days water is coming up out of my sump intake area from the rush of water

Montiman · May 11, 2019

Neo Jeo said:
The noise is mostly down at the bottom. I don’t mind I guess. I can keep the gate open 100%. The only thing with the gate open the over flow goes up and down. It’s like a surge of waster flows down. Now the water is coming up threw the black bulk head area at the bottom from splashing I assume.

I think I’m going to shut it a little?

This surge means you have overwhelmed the drain. Better to restrict your return pump or down size it.

Neo Jeo · May 11, 2019

Montiman said:
This surge means you have overwhelmed the drain. Better to restrict your return pump or down size it.

Ok. So maybe I just need to open gate valve all the way and turn my return pump down? I have full control .

Turn it down until no surge happens?

Thanks

Mastiffsrule · May 11, 2019

Montiman said:
This surge means you have overwhelmed the drain. Better to restrict your return pump or down size it.

This+^

Never restrict any drain that is stand alone, only 1 drain. You can run as you have it with the durso, it just takes some balancing of return and draid and some noise

Some pumps have adjustment, there are also true union joints that have a valve. Slow down the flow into the tank until the drain is keeps up. If it is too slow and you are loosing turn over you may need some adjusting

Neo Jeo · May 11, 2019

Mastiffsrule said:
This+^

Never restrict any drain that is stand alone, only 1 drain. You can run as you have it with the durso, it just takes some balancing of return and draid and some noise

Some pumps have adjustment, there are also true union joints that have a valve. Slow down the flow into the tank until the drain is keeps up. If it is too slow and you are loosing turn over you may need some adjusting

Ok. I will open it all the way. I will turn my return pump from 4/5 to 3/5 and if that doesn’t work I guess 2/5 lol.

3/5 should work. Now I have to keep an eye on my salinity as my return section will raise until water evaporates.

Mastiffsrule · May 11, 2019

Mess around with the flow until it seems balanced. You most likely will never fully quiet durso noise but should get rid of the flushing. Keep that durso line wide open.

If you need more, reference the GMAC thread, also @Flippers4pups did a good write up in a post also

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...s-to-quiet-a-durso-standpipe-is.323816/page-2