Help needed with algae

[Deniss]

Adding some live rock is a good idea but may not be necessary. With a Triton setup the macro algae should have brought in much of the necessary bio diversity that is needed.

In an aquarium, we are trying to maintain living reefs. This means they are designed to support life. We only have an illusion of control over which life makes it into our tanks. The smaller the life, the less control we have.

What we can do is try and create the conditions to give more desirable types of life a better change to thrive over the undesirable types.

Dino's do best in a system with nitrates but very low phosphates.
Cyanobacteria do best in a system with phosphates but very low nitrates.
Algae does best when both nutrients are balanced.
The only other option is to try and keep all nutrients out of the tank but that makes supporting coral difficult.

My goal is to try and keep both phosphates and nitrates balanced in the system. I don't necessarily care if I get a oppm reading as long as it is algae that is consuming them. Of course, I don't want algae making a mess of my DT so I run a high power fuge light to get it to grow there instead. A high quality fuge light is critical for using fuge based nutrient exports. The nutrients in all of your water will roughly be the same. If you are running high powered lights on your display tank the algae in your DT will grow faster than the algae in your fuge which is not what we want. To counter this you need to run lights that are designed for plant, not coral, growth. They also need to either be strong enough to compete with the DT lighting or close enough to the algae that it gets competitive PAR/PUR values (this is how algae scrubbers work with low powered light).

I'm not sure mate about your theory, i have tried this method with a nano reef tank connected to a chaeto reactor. Had to harvest it every 2 days, so hard the chaeto would grow at some point it really slowed down...i tested my water and had 0 readings ( prob wasn't really 0, due accuracy etc) but the algae in the display wasn't going away. Infact the only thing that was having a hard time, were my LPS corals.
I think the key to having an algae free display is enough having enough grazers, i'm testing astrea snails right now and there doing a great job.

 

[Brew12]

I'm not sure mate about your theory, i have tried this method with a nano reef tank connected to a chaeto reactor. Had to harvest it every 2 days, so hard the chaeto would grow at some point it really slowed down...i tested my water and had 0 readings ( prob wasn't really 0, due accuracy etc) but the algae in the display wasn't going away. Infact the only thing that was having a hard time, were my LPS corals.
I think the key to having an algae free display is enough having enough grazers, i'm testing astrea snails right now and there doing a great job.

I agree with your point and I realize my comment was too general. Since a DT will have light and the same nutrients as the water in the fuge/chaeto reactor it will also grow algae. It will just grow less than it would without the fuge. By improving the light in the fuge you shift the balance of growth away from the DT but you will never eliminate it. My goal is to keep algae growth in the DT low enough for my CuC to keep it virtually non visible.

The BRS tank in the video series consistently read 0ppm nitrates and phosphates but they considered it a high nutrient system. They were just growing chaeto at such a rapid rate that it stripped the nutrients from the water quickly. But, they also fed the tank heavy with both fish and coral foods to keep everything healthy even though the water tested at 0ppm.

 

[reeferfoxx]

My tank is now 90% rid of all dinos and no cyano. My UV will be hooked up tomorrow finally and I will eradicate the rest of the dinos.

Glad you're seeing some progress!

To the OP. You're doing to much. To much to remove stuff, too much nutrient reduction, and not enough patience. Dry rock takes a long time to get to the algae free state we all want. But you have to go through the cycles of cyano, hair algae and whatever else might pop up. Trying to stop it with nutrient control will only prolong it and/or create more invasive growths. Manual removal and cuc is best route. Remove the bio-media, gfo, carbon dosing, meds etc etc. Let it sit.

 

[mcarroll]

Avoid having to join this thread: Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?



(But read through at least the first post!)

No3: undetectable
Po4: undetectable

Don't allow this to go on much longer. Hours OK. Days not OK. As has already been stated, food is not a way to address the deficiency your tank is demonstrating.

Get some liquid nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus) and start dosing them ASAP to get positive numbers on your tests 24/7. If your tank just started looking like this, then it may stage a seemingly instant turnaround.

This thread will help a little in general, and specifically if you want to DIY your nitrogen source:
A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)

Started the tank 5 months ago, with dead rock and live sand. Some macroalgae in reverse schedule in sump.

Live sand as in "from a reef", or live sand as in "from a bag"?

This is a very new tank started with nearly sterile rock....easy to overdo it and move to fast with this stuff.

Guess I will have to take a sample to work and check on microscope. Should be able to make a picture as well.
Already sourcing fresh live rock, should help the balance.

Excellent! Post your pics in the dino thread linked at the top if you want more help with ID.

Save adding the live rock until you address the nutrient situation.

Was feeding a lot less to get nutrients down, so now I am feeding a bit more, but still on a conservative side.
Hope they can pitch in, cause corals are having trouble at the moment...

Go back to normal feeding amounts ASAP. Maybe consider slanting your feed toward something coral friendly like:
[URL='http://www.sfbb.com/Hatch-Mix%E2%84%A2_50.php']
Hatch Mix™
+

Shrimpery®

or

[/URL]
Detail +
Instant Baby Brine Shrimp

or


Cod and Sythe eggs

or


Baby Brine Shrimp

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Avoid having to join this thread: Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?



(But read through at least the first post!)



Don't allow this to go on much longer. Hours OK. Days not OK. As has already been stated, food is not a way to address the deficiency your tank is demonstrating.

Get some liquid nutrients (nitrogen and phosphorus) and start dosing them ASAP to get positive numbers on your tests 24/7. If your tank just started looking like this, then it may stage a seemingly instant turnaround.

This thread will help a little in general, and specifically if you want to DIY your nitrogen source:
A Nitrate Dosing Calculator For Better Tank Health (And Better Coral Color!)



Live sand as in "from a reef", or live sand as in "from a bag"?

This is a very new tank started with nearly sterile rock....easy to overdo it and move to fast with this stuff.



Excellent! Post your pics in the dino thread linked at the top if you want more help with ID.

Save adding the live rock until you address the nutrient situation.



Go back to normal feeding amounts ASAP. Maybe consider slanting your feed toward something coral friendly like:

Hatch Mix™
+

Shrimpery®

or

Detail +
Instant Baby Brine Shrimp

or


Cod and Sythe eggs

or


Baby Brine Shrimp

Thanks a lot for the extensive reply, great info!

Read through it and has some great information! Already have some source for PO4 and NO3 ready, so will dose straight after work (after re-testing). Also forgot to mention, I was adding a carbon-source, this was a big mistake.
Guess my first stop will be at the LFS, and get some extra food for the tank, some fresh Brine Shrimp (will also check on hatchery).

Already decided to take the build even slower, don't want my corals to suffer. So first have to get the algae under control before any new additions.

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Finally got around to making some photos.

First one at 10x magnification:

40x:

40x:

 

[reeferfoxx]

Finally got around to making some photos.

First one at 10x magnification:

40x:

40x:

It's dinos. Sucks.

 

[mcarroll]

Definitely post pics on the dino thread for specific ID.

You can click through this section of the first post too:

• [*]Confirming the ID of your dinoflagellate is important if possible.
  

  • To begin with, make sure you have Dinos
  • Use @taricha's dino confirmation guide on posts #986-987.

  [*]Once you know it's dino's you should ideally figure out what type(s) your tank is hosting.
  

  • Specifically for Ostreopsis, consider skipping ahead to post #86 and #905 as the information is still developing.
  • Compare your dino's with photos where @taricha's has already made ID's:
    (Click the link. Then click the SEARCH button at the bottom of the search page.)
    • ostreopsis
    • prorocentrum
    • amphidinium
    • coolia
    • (other searches coming)

 

[sebastiaan1985]

It's dinos. Sucks.

Indeed it does... but at least now I can take proper countermeasures...

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Definitely post pics on the dino thread for specific ID.

You can click through this section of the first post too:

Will do! Each species requires specific treatment?

Also followed he other suggestions, so no more carbon-dosing, increased feeding and see how it goes...

Will keep you guys updated! Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[mcarroll]

Some do require a more specific approach, but it can depend on how established your bloom is. If you can ID it specifically, it puts you in a better position generally speaking.

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Some do require a more specific approach, but it can depend on how established your bloom is. If you can ID it specifically, it puts you in a better position generally speaking.

Guess I can say that it's established, since I have been battling it for 10 weeks now... (First was a misdiagnosis as cyano...) So let's see how it goes, now I know the enemy and can get some targeted countermeasures...

 

[mcarroll]

Definitely begin with nutrient corrections to see how that goes while you're considering other options.

Nothing but dino's and bacteria will prosper while the dino's are "left in charge" of nutrients.

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Will monitor nutrients daily and correct where necessary.
NO3 is up to 5, PO4 still undetectable.
So have dosed a little phosphate.

Also doing a 3 day blackout, to break the chain..

 

[rtparty]

Will monitor nutrients daily and correct where necessary.
NO3 is up to 5, PO4 still undetectable.
So have dosed a little phosphate.

Also doing a 3 day blackout, to break the chain..

A blackout also hurts the good things you're trying to get growing as well.

 

[sebastiaan1985]

Black-out seems to be recommended in multiple threads. I know it has some risks, but letting the algae take over any further is an even bigger risk. Will check on inhabitants daily, just to be sure all are doing relatively well..
Negative effects from the algae are getting very clear now, so have to do something to beat this enemy...

 

[rtparty]

Black-out seems to be recommended in multiple threads. I know it has some risks, but letting the algae take over any further is an even bigger risk. Will check on inhabitants daily, just to be sure all are doing relatively well..
Negative effects from the algae are getting very clear now, so have to do something to beat this enemy...

You're not dealing with algae. You're dealing with dinoflagellates.

A blackout may be your best bet, depends on type of dinos. I'm just pointing out that beating most, if not all, types of dinos comes down to getting to the good things to grow and this includes algae. A blackout hurts algae.

When my dinos got out of hand I would put on a filter sock and blow them off everything with a turkey baster. Then switch the sock out the next morning. This way they didn't smother the corals. Letting the film algae grow on your glass is also a huge help since it takes away nutrients that the dinos will feed on.

 

[mcarroll]

Negative effects from the algae are getting very clear now, so have to do something to beat this enemy...

What effects are you currently seeing? Usually it's due to toxins and those should be managed with activated carbon – it works very well. Use a quarter cup per 100 gallons and change it weekly.

Black-out seems to be recommended in multiple threads.

I can neither recommned blackouts nor other dino threads.

All of that (and more) is the reason I created the Dino thread in post #24.

 

[sebastiaan1985]

You're not dealing with algae. You're dealing with dinoflagellates.

A blackout may be your best bet, depends on type of dinos. I'm just pointing out that beating most, if not all, types of dinos comes down to getting to the good things to grow and this includes algae. A blackout hurts algae.

When my dinos got out of hand I would put on a filter sock and blow them off everything with a turkey baster. Then switch the sock out the next morning. This way they didn't smother the corals. Letting the film algae grow on your glass is also a huge help since it takes away nutrients that the dinos will feed on.

Good point, it is not an algae. So will put lighting back on.
Am using a turkey blaster and siphoning a lot of mess out.
Would it be a good idea to do this daily? Siphoning the mess out and pouring the water back in the tank?

 

[sebastiaan1985]

What effects are you currently seeing? Usually it's due to toxins and those should be managed with activated carbon – it works very well. Use a quarter cup per 100 gallons and change it weekly.



I can neither recommned blackouts nor other dino threads.

All of that (and more) is the reason I created the Dino thread in post #24.

Currently, corals are not opening. Especially the zoas. Other LPS are not fully open and some are showing skeleton.

Using carbon and changing that seems like a good idea!


So to summarise;
- increasing feeding (fresh/frozen/pellets)
- siphoning through filter sock on a daily basis
- measure and correct nutrients daily (aiming for NO3: 5-10ppm, PO4: 0.03-0.08ppm)
- changing carbon weekly