Help. Never treated for ICH before

[HotRocks]

I am viewing on my phone, but the spots look too small to me to be ich. I'm not trying to be the bearer of bad news. But if it is indeed velvet you will need to get the fish in copper with a therapudic level in the next 48 hours to increase chance of survival.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

This is literally the worst timing ever... major snow storm... plus my work hours over the next 3 days.. I’m at a loss right now bc my hands are literally tied. Anything else I can do to buy time other then freshwater dips? I physically don’t have the time to try and catch these fish everyday and freshwater dip them [emoji53]

 

[Big G]

Tough decision. Almost every treatment requires lots of attention. Hyposalinity is the only one that doesn't require meds, but requires complete attention to details. Here's Humblefish's Hypo treatment guideline.

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and gill flukes.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Yeah I really don’t know what to do... I mean I guess I could try and catch the Kole tang since he seems to be the worst outta everyone. I could try and freshwater dip him maybe

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Ugh I’m gonna have to take out a majority of my rock work just to catch anything which seems very tedious only to dip them for less than 5 mins... I’m gonna have to wait til tomorrow and hope the roads are good and my LFS is open so I can buy everything and go about this the right way, I don’t wanna stress out the fish anymore then they already are.

On the bright side... my tang is covered with specks but he’s not scratching or breathing heavy and still eating so I guess that’s a plus.. the next fish to show signs is my squared Anthia which only has a few specks. Everything else seems to be okay for now

 

[4FordFamily]

Tough decision. Almost every treatment requires lots of attention. Hyposalinity is the only one that doesn't require meds, but requires complete attention to details. Here's Humblefish's Hypo treatment guideline.

Hyposalinity: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) and gill flukes.

How To Treat - Place the fish you wish to treat in a quarantine tank with SG & temperature matching the tank they came from. Over a period of 48 hours, gradually lower the SG down to 1.009. You must use a perfectly calibrated refractometer at all times while doing hypo. Treat for 30 consecutive days, and during that time the SG must always remain at 1.009. If it inches up even slightly, the 30 day clock restarts. For this reason, many people use an auto top off system while performing hyposalinity. Some have even used hypo to successfully rid their display tank of ich, while others have failed. All corals and inverts must be removed beforehand if you wish to try this.

One of the challenges posed by hypo is maintaining a proper pH for the entire duration. While fish aren’t overly sensitive to low pH for short periods of time, anything continuously lower than 7.5 is going to be a problem. So, you will have to constantly test and then buffer the water to raise the pH. This can be accomplished by using supplements (available at most LFS) or you can “bake” your own DIY supplement by using baking soda. Spread baking soda onto a clean baking sheet, and bake at 300F for 1 hour. This process drives off water and carbon dioxide from the baking soda, and the result is an effective pH buffer. You will need to experiment (start with a very small amount) to determine how much is needed to raise your pH to the desired level.

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, gentle on the fish. Scientific research also showed hyposalinity at 15 ppt for 2 days eliminated juvenile and adult flukes. When maintained for 5 days, egg hatching was prevented.

Cons/Side Effects - Difficult to execute properly, and hypo resistant strains of ich have been proven to exist (study done by Yambot in 2003.)

Important to note, I agree and that looks to be velvet. Hyposalintiy does not work on velvet. Unfortunately you need copper. Freshwater dips will buy some time, potentially. Sorry to bear bad news...

To confirm velvet, if spots noticeably increase over 48 hours it’s definitely velvet. Ich’s life cycle lends to it progressing much more slowly. Velvet is very aggresssive and deadly.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Yeah then it’s Velvet... my tang only had a hand full of spots yesterday but is now covered... I guess it’s safe to say if I don’t get these fish medicated in the next 24hrs there may not be many fish to medicate

 

[Sobo's Reef]

I found a spare tote in my closet.. I just filled it with fresh saltwater a powerhead and a heater. Just gotta wait til tomorrow to get a filter and some chemicals

 

[4FordFamily]

I found a spare tote in my closet.. I just filled it with fresh saltwater a powerhead and a heater. Just gotta wait til tomorrow to get a filter and some chemicals

It’s a start! Be sure you dip in a separate bucket or something with water temp matched. Don’t keep the fish in fresh water the entire time

Yeah then it’s Velvet... my tang only had a hand full of spots yesterday but is now covered... I guess it’s safe to say if I don’t get these fish medicated in the next 24hrs there may not be many fish to medicate

Agree, unfortunately.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

The tote is filled with fresh saltwater... not freshwater

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Will a UV sterilizer help with the fallow process?

 

[HotRocks]

Uv won't make a difference. It's fine to run it. But you need to stay fallow for 76 days to be sure all strains are eradicated.

 

[Big G]

Here's Humblefish's emergency treatment advisory for Marine Velvet. It's important to note that Humble has found that even for heavily covered fish, a bath in an acriflavine product can increase survival rates. I've bolded and underlined those sections. That's a beautiful fish. Best of luck.

~ Gary

Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet Disease

I recently acquired 3 fish - Longnose Butterfly, Kole Tang, Naso Tang - with velvet. None showed visible physical symptoms right away, but they all came from a tank where velvet was known to be present so I just patiently waited. Before & after pictures will follow immediately after this write-up.

In short, the Butterflyfish didn’t make it; however the two tangs did. The only difference in their treatment was I used formalin (with Methylene Blue) on the butterfly in a bath solution, whereas the tangs got acriflavine (with NO Methylene Blue). It’s also worth noting that the butterfly & Kole Tang showed symptoms the worst, whereas the Naso only had moderate visible symptoms. Tangs are also generally considered hardier than butterflyfish, so there’s that factor to consider as well. Anyway, here is the treatment I used on them:

The short version:

• 5 minute freshwater dip
• Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

1. Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
2. Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

• After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
• While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
• Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Sounds like I’ll have to go the CP way instead of just copper. Not sure if my LFS will have that however.. know where to buy it?

 

[4FordFamily]

Sounds like I’ll have to go the CP way instead of just copper. Not sure if my LFS will have that however.. know where to buy it?

You’ll be able to get copper much faster. Pure CP requires a prescription.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Okay so coppersafe with the api copper test kit is fine? Also, should I definitely pick up the kanaplex and furan-2?

 

[Reef Doc]

Ok you can buy a 20 gallon for 20 dollars at petco, petsmart, or petsupplies plus if they have a $1 per gallon sale going. Pick up the 20 gallon fill it up with saltwater that has a specific gravity of 1.020 (just dilute some water from your main tank with distilled water or RODI water). Add a heater to bring the temp to 78 degrees F. Add a powerhead for flow. Add a good sized piece of live rock for biological filtration. Feed frozen food with garlic to entice the fish to eat. If the fish is eating yo should be ok when the fish is kept at a low specific gravity. Keep the fish in the QT until the ICH disappears. Freshwater dips can be good but they can also be stressful for the fish and make them more sick. Once the fish is healthy you can add him back but figure out why he got sick in the first place...too aggressive tank mates, to small of a tank, does he have parasites, was he eating? Mike Paletta talks about treating and acclimating fish in this video he talks about it starting around the 26 minute mark:

 

[4FordFamily]

Okay so coppersafe with the api copper test kit is fine? Also, should I definitely pick up the kanaplex and furan-2?

Yes and yes I recommend keeping those things on hand. I’d add metroplex, and acriflavine or reef rally for bath purposes.

 

[Sobo's Reef]

Ok you can buy a 20 gallon for 20 dollars at petco, petsmart, or petsupplies plus if they have a $1 per gallon sale going. Pick up the 20 gallon fill it up with saltwater that has a specific gravity of 1.020 (just dilute some water from your main tank with distilled water or RODI water). Add a heater to bring the temp to 78 degrees F. Add a powerhead for flow. Add a good sized piece of live rock for biological filtration. Feed frozen food with garlic to entice the fish to eat. If the fish is eating yo should be ok when the fish is kept at a low specific gravity. Keep the fish in the QT until the ICH disappears. Freshwater dips can be good but they can also be stressful for the fish and make them more sick. Once the fish is healthy you can add him back but figure out why he got sick in the first place...too aggressive tank mates, to small of a tank, does he have parasites, was he eating? Mike Paletta talks about treating and acclimating fish in this video he talks about it starting around the 26 minute mark:

I was told to use fresh saltwater... not DT water. I’m almost positive he may have already had it from when I purchased it. Couple of other tanks further away at the store didn’t look to hot but thought the tang would be okay since he was on the other side of the store... stupid me for wishful thinking. Also I thought live rock and/or sand is a no no in QT tanks with copper?

 

[4FordFamily]

I was told to use fresh saltwater... not DT water. I’m almost positive he may have already had it from when I purchased it. Couple of other tanks further away at the store didn’t look to hot but thought the tang would be okay since he was on the other side of the store... stupid me for wishful thinking. Also I thought live rock and/or sand is a no no in QT tanks with copper?

Avoid rocks and sand as they absorb copper and lead it to fluctuate— something we don’t need with copper. Rocks especially.